Can the Honda ST1300 Pan European still compete in 2020/2021?

My old man always said, "Just more sh*t to go wrong." when I'd talk about all the cool options you could get for a car back when I was younger. I'm that way now.
I wanted to dip my toes in touring without any major outlay and the 1100 satisfies both constraints. And darned if I don't just love that bike.
 
Getting back to the original question, can an ST1300 compete in present day. Of course it can. Go to the start line of the Iron Butt Rally this June and you'll see several lined up. They compete very well.
 
Highly likely you'd also see one or more ST1100s.
They have been a strong presence since their inception.
 
As someone who gets to ride brand new rental bikes every year (except for COVID 2020) my answer is an unequival YES - but it is clearly a personal subjective answer. I frequently ponder the contrast between older and newer bikes, more vs less technology, etc. ,especially as it relates to motorcycles.

The luxury car makers like Mercedes, BMW, Jaguar, etc were the first to introduce high-tech features many years ago, which have now trickled down to mid and low prices cars - things like heated/air cooled seats, big dashboard screens for GPS and controls, dynamic suspension, etc. I remember reading an article way back then. The basis of the article was that all the premium car makers were essentially at par when it came to the high quality of their leather seats, wood dashes, powerful engines, suspensions, etc. Therefore the premium car manufacturers were turning to electronics and technology to add value and differentiate themselves. That's now well underway with motorcycles.

My personal preference is to spend a little extra to buy simple, high quality, durable items with a reputation for excellent functionality and then maintain them until they either wear out or are superseded by something that clearly works better. I can't always afford the very best new so I am fine with the occasional used purchase to get the top quality gear I want. Much of my riding over the years has been solo exploring out of the way roads, sometimes in remote locations. As such reliability is important to me and simple, top quality but solid functional items are more important than supplemental/technical enhancements that might add an addtional 10% - 15% of performance or comfort but significantly increase the potential for difficult to repair on-the-road malfunctions.

My last Alps tour before COVID was in September 2019. My wife came with me for the last 3 weeks so I rented the R1250RT, which had just come out. I have always liked the RTs and was thinking these 3 weeks would be like a long test ride. I'm getting set to retire and was looking to buy perhaps my final touring-type bike and the 1250RT was near the top of my list.

I've enjoyed most of the BMWs I've rented (dozens of them over the years) including all the RTs. I know that various members here have them and like them very much. I'm not bashing them - just indicating my experience relative to the ST1300. I suspect I may have gotten a lemon but it was one of the worst BMWs I've ever rented. It was fully optioned out. The gear box was terrible. The handling 2-up felt like the front end was loaded with cement, etc. On one long day of very cold and wet riding we had all the electronics on, heated grips, heated seats, etc and the battery was too weak to start the bike after filling up for gas. Upon my return to the rental shop the technician said that the gearbox was a little "stiff" but that all the electronics worked correctly including the dynamic susepension, etc.

When I got back home I crossed the RT off my list. I looked for and found a very nice, low mileage, well farkled ST1300ABS. I reworked the front and rear suspension to suit my riding style and weight (and that of my wife and gear) and it has been perfect. It shifts better than the 1250, handles better (for me), has plenty of grunt and I know it's reliable. To me is a good example of what I mentioned earlier - a relatively simple, high quality, reliable motorcycle with excellent functionality for its intended sports touring function. I'm sure items like electronic key fobs, dynamic suspensions, heated seats, headlights that go around corners, etc are all wonderful things - but the complexity and cost they would add to the excellent fundemental performance of a bike like the ST1300 is not worth it to me personally - even less so when you factor in that a new R1250RT would have cost me 3 times as much.

When I was working to jump start the dead battery at the gas station in Switzerland an older, well-to-do looking couple pulled up to see if I needed any extra help. The man was driving a Mercedes AMG GT 63 - roughly a $140,000 car here in the US - clearly a technological marvel. He said he preferred his BMW R 80 GS to the new bikes because he felt that the newer bikes were too complicated - go figure.

Like I said - it's all personal. I like the way that my ST1300 works so much relative to the bikes I rent that I would actually consider taking it over to the Alps as both my solo and 2-up bike, which says a lot because I usually prefer the lighter BMW F800s or KTM 790s as my solo bikes in the tight switchbacks and high little 1-lane Alps passes. So a BIG personal YES from me - the ST1300 certainly holds its own.
 
As someone who gets to ride brand new rental bikes every year (except for COVID 2020) my answer is an unequival YES - but it is clearly a personal subjective answer. I frequently ponder the contrast between older and newer bikes, more vs less technology, etc. ,especially as it relates to motorcycles.
<SNIP>
Very well-said, @Moto-Charlie.
Maybe it's my age, but I agree with all of that. And I've also read several of your recounting various Alpine tours, and recall you telling us you like the mid-weights for solo riding through the switchbacks. I also prefer buying used, and having ridden since the 70s, I tend to pooh-pooh the newest gadgetry, for the most part. I am *almost* frugal, but like most I can justify (rationalize?) my expense on farkles. But it's more for convenience, than techno-wizardry (GPS / nav excepted), and I would be put out, at the least, to have to replace a computer for traction / suspension / whatever for a grand or more, when I selected the bike at least partially for economic reasons.
 
Very well-said, @Moto-Charlie.
Maybe it's my age, but I agree with all of that. And I've also read several of your recounting various Alpine tours, and recall you telling us you like the mid-weights for solo riding through the switchbacks. I also prefer buying used, and having ridden since the 70s, I tend to pooh-pooh the newest gadgetry, for the most part. I am *almost* frugal, but like most I can justify (rationalize?) my expense on farkles. But it's more for convenience, than techno-wizardry (GPS / nav excepted), and I would be put out, at the least, to have to replace a computer for traction / suspension / whatever for a grand or more, when I selected the bike at least partially for economic reasons.

Sadlsor - Thanks for commenting. I understand that motorcycle technolgy can provide substantial benefits for those riders who want and appreciate those benefits. I am sometimes amused by motorcycle journalists who wax poetic about the latest and greatest like the R1250RT, or KTM1290 Adv R, etc and can then talk about how the smile never left their face while the hooned around on a Royal Enfield INT 650 or Yamaha SCR950 scrambler, because their simplicity generated enjoyment from the basic fun of riding withour a lot of technical intrusion. That is somewhat how I view a fairly straight forward ST1300 with a technology laden R1250RT. Both are great bikes. I simply prefer the more simplistic route.
 
This turn of the thread could lead one to compare the ST1300 to the 2005-2009 BMW R1200RT. The hexhead RT was still simple to maintain yet included factory cruise, heated grips and seat with suspension & handling far better than the ST. ~130 lbs lighter, better brakes w/o all the SMC headaches, better wind management, no heat off the engine. BMW had pretty much fixed the transmission and final drive issues of the 1150s by this time and with the passage of time those R12s being sold used have had problems, if any, addressed years ago. I loved my 2005 ST and thought I'd be on a ST forever but compared to my 2007 RT I'd be cracked in the head to go back.
 
He he cracked in the head eh ;)

In hindsight the ST1100 was my most satisfying and trouble free bike I ever owned, the 13 not as much.

Looking forward to riding my new K12GT :)
 
This turn of the thread could lead one to compare the ST1300 to the 2005-2009 BMW R1200RT. The hexhead RT was still simple to maintain yet included factory cruise, heated grips and seat with suspension & handling far better than the ST. ~130 lbs lighter, better brakes w/o all the SMC headaches, better wind management, no heat off the engine. BMW had pretty much fixed the transmission and final drive issues of the 1150s by this time and with the passage of time those R12s being sold used have had problems, if any, addressed years ago. I loved my 2005 ST and thought I'd be on a ST forever but compared to my 2007 RT I'd be cracked in the head to go back.

For me personally the hexhead RT to ST1300 comparion is right on the money. Due to her work and home schedule my wife could only come over to Europe to tour with me every 3 - 5 years, usually three to four weeks at a time. We rented a 2009 R1200RT and a 2013 R1200RT prior to the 2019 R1250RT. I have very fond memories of both the 2009 and 2013. The 2009 was the simpler of the two (with a lot less electronic technology than the R1250), was a tad lighter than the 2013, handled great and gave us a wonderful touring experience.

A 2007 - 2009 R1200RT is on my short list as a possible bike to take over to Europe as both a solo and 2-up bike. As dduelin noted these bikes are fairly light and well sorted out in terms of problems and are less compex to begin with. I like the ST1300 for touring here in the States because of the extensive dealer network. BMW dealers are far more numerous in Europe, so finding service close by is not a problem.

Perspective can also influence a rider's opinion. I've owned several BMWs in my earlier riding years including a R/75, K75 and R1000RS. I always thought those older ones were reliable and functional but a bit "agricultural" and non-exciting compared to the power and smoothness of the Japenese bikes. And yet - when I would go over to the Alps every year to rent and ride them in the land where they were designed and tested the handling, power curve, gearing, etc seemed to be well suited for the mountains and I always appreciated how well they worked there vs here. Who knew.
 
Manufacturers of almost anything (including bikes) are very interested in adding features/functionality. It justifies keeping the price up where they can earn the most profit. As an example, we can buy a brand new car today for under $16,000, but very few people do because they've been convinced that they need all of the latest bells and whistles. I'm one of them... mostly.

ABS? Yes, and we pay for it. Keyless bikes? I could live without, but I probably won't have a choice with my next bike.

I think technology is a good thing, but it's incumbent on us as consumers to restrain ourselves from buying, and paying for, features/functionality that are there more to serve the purpose of elevating the price rather than offering the things we really want.
 
Thanks for the writeup. I actually was considering renting the 1250RT next time in Alps, after being tired of continuously renting the F700/750. Now I may rethink it...

Yes the ST is amazing. I have the FZ1 too, and the ST handles in the corners as good or better. I'd gladly take it to Alps, solo or 2up.

GryST - as noted I may have got a lemon with my R1250RT. It was also the first year. BMW has a history of using their customers to sort out new product problems. The bikes I rent are always brand new current year models. So if I'm renting a R1250RT, a F750GS, etc I'm likely to be riding it in its first year of availability. Many of these models also are released in Europe first before finding their way to America. I've had a fair number of mechanical and electronic issues on BMW bikes that were being rented in their first year of prodcution availability. Renting the same bike the next model year usually sees little to no problems - almost always a first year problem.

You've been before so you know what you're looking for in a bike. I personally like the smaller light weight bikes in the Alps. I've rented a number of K1200 and 1300 bikes - the K1200/1300S being similar to my Honda Blackbird and I've enjoyed a week on the KTM 1290 Duke GT. If money were no issue and I rode solo the KTM GT would be the bike - it's fantastic. However the F750GS has plenty of power on the mountain roads I favor and is significantly cheaper to rent and gets pretty good gas mileage (at nearly $10/gallon).

The new BMW F900XR is a noticeable step up from the F750GS performance wise and the KTM 790/890 Adv (not the more offroad "R" spec) are also a lot of fun and a fair bit quicker and lighter than the F750GS.

I am personally considering a heavier ST1300 or maybe a hexhead RT in case my wife wants to come too. The weight only matters the first minute or two before launch. If I were solo it would be a lighter bike for me - I think :rolleyes:
 
I chose the ST1300 as a replacement for my ageing 1977 BMW R100RS in 2015 long after they went out of print here in the US (except for the PA series) because I wanted a machine with fairly current tech, weak points and fixes that were well known and documented, and enough weight to deal with long highway miles and nimbleness for the twisty roads I prefer. At $9K for a new bike, the price was right. I tested a Yamaha FJR at the same time and decided on the ST because it didn't feel as squirrelly in crosswinds. Having lived with it for a few years I'm even more convinced I made the right choice, particularly since I'm in my 70s now and planning a cross country trip next year to celebrate my 75th birthday and my hunting partner's recent retirement. He just picked up a 2017 PA version and is busily farkleing it out, including a McCruise CC (I'm installing a Rostra myself).

With all of the choices out there, I'm still convinced I made the right choice for ME, and frankly, I haven't seen any recent designs that appeal to me, not even from BMW, a marque I've owned three of over the years. Is the ST1300 the "best" rig out there? I don't know but speaking for myself, I don't see any changes in my ride coming any time soon. Is it still competitive? Yes, if you want a nice stable platform for touring and don't care about it being the latest and greatest. If you absolutely want something that is all angles and looks like it belongs in a Starwars or Batman movie look elsewhere.

In short, the question to me is one that leaves a lot of room for subjectivity and there is no wrong answer. Ride what you like and enjoy the miles or klicks.
 
I chose the ST1300 as a replacement for my ageing 1977 BMW R100RS in 2015 long after they went out of print here in the US (except for the PA series) because I wanted a machine with fairly current tech, weak points and fixes that were well known and documented, and enough weight to deal with long highway miles and nimbleness for the twisty roads I prefer.

I went in precisely the opposite direction: 2007 ST1300 - sold in favour of a - 1983 BMW R100RS.

I sure did love my ST but in making this move, I was seeking:
  • decent, but not insane power (the BMW is definitely a gentleman's express: fast, but not quick);
  • good handling (I'm not very fast anymore - but I do like to corner and Bimmer is steady and predictable);
  • good wind and rain protection (I'm not Ironman - but I ain't a ballerina either);
  • a simple easy to fix bike with a strong record of durability and reliability plus easily available parts (the R100RS is like a big garden tractor in its simplicity and parts availability is like a new bike - although BMW $ure i$ proud of those part$...);
  • less weight (the ST1300 wasn't too heavy for me - but someday it was going to be and that would not be a pleasant realization and at "only" 503 lbs, the BMW is significantly more than 200 lbs lighter than the ST1300).
Of the above factors, weight was the key determinant in my move away from the ST. Anyhow, I have had a hankering for an R100RS ever since they came out in 1977 (I was 19 then) and finally, I got one and am lovin' it. On a recent trip I averaged well over 60 MPG (Imperial) and on rainy days I nearly hit 70 MPG.

Pete
 
100 Lbs less heft
Heated Grips and Seat
Proper factory cruise control
No linked brakes
Less plastic with less fasteners
More fastener uniformity
Better instrument cluster lighting
LED lights all around
Generally, more thought to maintainability: easier access to the "V"
 
100 Lbs less heft
Heated Grips and Seat
Proper factory cruise control
No linked brakes
Less plastic with less fasteners
More fastener uniformity
Better instrument cluster lighting
LED lights all around
Generally, more thought to maintainability: easier access to the "V"
What bike are you describing... Tenere, FJR?
 
Honda could easily build a smaller V4 with a turbocharger, same power but less complexity: one throttle body, less muffler weight (turbos reduce exhaust noise) and the reduced V4 to maybe a 900 would also lower the weight. And the frame would be smaller too. The engine management on modern turbos would make this practical. The reduction in cc would lower insurance (until some dweeb with insurance company discovers the evil turbo). Body work I've always thought should be like hoods on cars, remove a couple of fasteners, have the main latch behind the locking gas cap door and side fairing could swing near 180 degrees toward the front wheel, one small panel lifting up for air filter access much like the Super Tenere gas tank. The first manufacturer to do this will gain some market as the first riders at the rally and campground will have to demo the feature. It would make deep cleaning happen more often too. But they have their own way of doing things.
 
Honda could easily build a smaller V4 with a turbocharger, same power but less complexity: one throttle body, less muffler weight (turbos reduce exhaust noise) and the reduced V4 to maybe a 900 would also lower the weight. And the frame would be smaller too. The engine management on modern turbos would make this practical. The reduction in cc would lower insurance (until some dweeb with insurance company discovers the evil turbo). Body work I've always thought should be like hoods on cars, remove a couple of fasteners, have the main latch behind the locking gas cap door and side fairing could swing near 180 degrees toward the front wheel, one small panel lifting up for air filter access much like the Super Tenere gas tank. The first manufacturer to do this will gain some market as the first riders at the rally and campground will have to demo the feature. It would make deep cleaning happen more often too. But they have their own way of doing things.


I nominate @stinker for Honda Motorsports CEO!!
 
Electric supercharger... But whatever you gain with insurance on deceased displacement you get back with assisted aspiration.
 
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