Big mistake...R1200RT!

jbim said:
I made a big mistake today. I went to a BMW dealership and test rode a R1200RT. I fell in love with the handling. Much nimbler than the ST. You can easily feel the lesser weight. Two quirks: the gear shift is not easily accessible under the engine head. The turn signals on each side and the cancel on the right side need some getting used to. Other than that, I could get used to this bike.

The one huge difference in favor of the ST is the engine, much more smooth (actually the RT is not smooth at all) and the power. No surge on the RT however.

So, here's my question to you guys: what do you think I would miss the most of the ST if I traded for an RT (obviously, other than the members of this amazing forum, the best IMHO all hobbies combined)?

Thank you for any feedback.

Cheers
Click to expand...
You'd miss the engine guards (tip over bars)....

Check it out.

http://www.industryresearch.com.au/m...20panniers.mpg

Forest
 
Great bike except for the Maint. cost and the $5,000 + price differance. mmmmmm what could I do with 5k.....(top box, lights,Russell Daylong, heated gear, cruise control...........etc....etc.....etc.....)
 
slo~ride said:
Great bike except for the Maint. cost and the $5,000 + price differance. mmmmmm what could I do with 5k.....(top box, lights,Russell Daylong, heated gear, cruise control...........etc....etc.....etc.....)
Click to expand...


I had the same misconception until I went shopping. The price difference or lack there of was one of the big surprises. They're not that different. I paid a little over 16k for the RT with the BMW tank bag. The price of a ST1300A if you add, cruse, handle bar risers, heated grips, power outlet, and custom heated seat (the RT factory seat is great for both my wife and me not so with our ST), tank bag all of which were unnecessary for me on the RT.
Then consider the resale value; the RT might be cheaper.

Now that doesn’t mean it’s the right bike for everyone but if the two bikes are equally equipped the purchase price is not an obstacle.
 
Last edited:
Are there any K1200S or GT owners here?

I am serously thinking of getting one late this year after the ST is all paid.

Just looking for thoughts on those.
 
Chris Parker said:
Fortunately, BMW Motorrad and it's 80,000 plus and climbing a year in sales boxer owners don't agree with that assessment. The boxer has a loyal following among the Roundel set and they already tried to kill it once before with the K series in the early 80's. If it does go the way of the dodo bird, it will be emissions that does it in. And from the scuttlebutt I hear, there is talk of the next gen going liquid cooled, someway, somehow. If you believe that.



Cheers
Click to expand...

Chris,

I suppose this is splitting hairs because the numbers are so small overall, but does the boxer really sell in numbers over 80,000 a year? In 2007 BMW sold 102,467 units worldwide. I guess it just seems unlikely that only ~20,000 of those units were K bikes and 650's, especially when BMW delayed the 800GS due to high demand for F650's. in 2006 the F650 sold just over 12,000 F650's, leaving just 8,000 for K bikes world wide if 80,000 units were boxers.

I found a source that says 2006 unit sales of 1200GS and 1200RT totaled 44,522 units. If we throw in R1200R and S sales it might be 80,000...

The really small numbers...BMW has 1.2% of the US market now, the same as 2000. They don't really sell any more bikes here than they did nearly a decade ago- barely more than 12,000 bikes a year. That is amazing to me considering the dealer support available for BMW's back to the /5's of the early 1970's. Recently I walked into a BMW dealer and ordered a $3 taillight reflector for my 27 year old airhead. It was not in stock but I got it the next business day at my house.
 
dduelin said:
Chris,

I suppose this is splitting hairs because the numbers are so small overall, but does the boxer really sell in numbers over 80,000 a year? In 2007 BMW sold 102,467 units worldwide. I guess it just seems unlikely that only ~20,000 of those units were K bikes and 650's, especially when BMW delayed the 800GS due to high demand for F650's. in 2006 the F650 sold just over 12,000 F650's, leaving just 8,000 for K bikes world wide if 80,000 units were boxers.

I found a source that says 2006 unit sales of 1200GS and 1200RT totaled 44,522 units. If we throw in R1200R and S sales it might be 80,000...

The really small numbers...BMW has 1.2% of the US market now, the same as 2000. They don't really sell any more bikes here than they did nearly a decade ago- barely more than 12,000 bikes a year. That is amazing to me considering the dealer support available for BMW's back to the /5's of the early 1970's. Recently I walked into a BMW dealer and ordered a $3 taillight reflector for my 27 year old airhead. It was not in stock but I got it the next business day at my house.
Click to expand...

I could be off in my number a bit... but I seem to remember reading in ON magazine about a year ago the breakdown of boxers to K bikes in total sales.. this was the figure of when the R1200GS sold over 100,000 total units since introduction in 05, so it was around that time I read this... but it said that the sales of boxers was at or around 80,000 (this would be the RT, GS, GSA, R, ST, HP (low production numbers here), RT-P).

At any rate... the boxer is continuing strong for BMW and as to U.S. sales figures, that is about right 12K-14K is about what they sell. I attribute that to two main reasons...

1. The marque is on the high side on cost of entry... most motorcyclists are buying bikes in the 4 figures... Enthusiasts are stepping up to the ST, FJR, and RT in the higher price range... BMW caters to an older crowd, usually more affluent (not always the case) and can drop 20K on a K1200GT... the average motorcyclist does not spend that much on their bike (save maybe GW owners and some HD models). It would be interesting to see if the stats bear that out... This is just my guess from what I see at local dealers and what people are riding. Even if there are more people than I estimate who really pop for $15,000 plus for their rides, I gotta think that still the average rider only goes for a $5600 Suzuki SV650 or Wee-Strom or Yamaha 1100 Custom Cruiser.

2. Honestly, most of all their range is geared to the sport touring/touring crowd and the US is mostly a cruiser country... and BMW tried that with their R1200C with mixed results. My take is that the US has a niche market for sport touring and BMW fights for that with the ST, FJR, and now the new Connie... it's just that not many riders look to the RT, GS, GT, etc. because they don't "get" sport touring/adventure touring... it's cruiser/chrome or plastic/racer replica or nothing else.
 
zoomzoomzoom said:
I'm going to test drive one this year.:D
Click to expand...


I just spoke with a K1200GT owner. Interesting discussion too! He says the bike has been great, but his friend has the 1200RT. And when they have traded bikes, the RT handles better, and holds a line much better than the GT.

He plans on getting rid of the GT, and after test riding an FJR, he plans on picking up the FJR. (Will all respect to the ST.)
 
I test drove the FJR. It was a lot of fun but it doesn't work for two-up. My wife is always on with me. If I run to the store for a loaf of bread she wants to get on. :)
 
Aww!

That's so cool. None of my female friends will get on the bike.

The ST would be a lot better for two up than the FJR.

I'm looking at either picking up an FJR, or a VFR as a second bike.

The expense of keeping a BMW is just sounding less and less thrilling.

Plus there's tools required for servicings that are not made available to non BMW Motorrad technicians.
 
RTETR said:
JDP,

I wouldn't service an RT mainly because of BMW's warranty restrictions and the fact that BMW are far less forgiving or flexible than Honda when it comes to service and service records.
Click to expand...

No company can MAKE you go to a dealer for service. If you do it yourself, just keep receipts. I also documented the services with a few digital camera shots of the odometer, the oil, and the valve covers off.

I ride an '04 R1100S, pushing 30K miles and to date have spent $0 for service, aside from oil and filters. Heck, you can adjust the valves at a rest stop on the side of the road in about 30 minutes if you were so inclined. Dealer maintenance may be costly, but if you are the least bit mechanically inclined, no problem. Oh, should I mention I can have the rear wheel off in less then 2 minutes!

Pros and cons to all bikes, but maintenance is not a con for a boxer.
 
Last edited:
gnorts said:
I think that goes against implied warranty law in most states.
Click to expand...


I does in NY. I use to be employed in the Auto industry many moons ago, and I know back as far as the 80's that a manufacturer could not deny warranty coverage as long as there was records of maintenance. A lot of dealers were trying harder to squeeze out independent repair shops, than to just make their customers happy, and were, with the backing of the manufacturers, telling customers that they had to service at an authorized dealer.

Not so, just show you complied with the recommended maintenance and you are good to go. Even if the computer printout was not available, they would have to prove that the failure would NOT have happened if some readings from the data system could have prevented the failure, and I cannot think of any failures that would be "preventable".
 
Reiner Kappenberger said:
There is only one problem with that on the BMW. For any warranty claim you need to provide the computer system printout that is taken during regular service. Unfortunatly unlike cars this is a proprietary system and a special ($$$) computer is needed to obtain this printout.

Unless you have a large number of BMW bikes to service. The dealer is the only option to maintain warranty.

Reiner
Click to expand...

Urban legend.....
According to my BMW dealer, one of the largest in the country, that's not how it works.
The service manager did suggest that I keep receipts and records. I did the same with my ST.
 
zoomzoomzoom said:
Urban legend.....
According to my BMW dealer, one of the largest in the country, that's not how it works.
The service manager did suggest that I keep receipts and records. I did the same with my ST.
Click to expand...

Do it yourself wrenching works fine with the R bikes but the current K bike motor has a self-diagnostic computer onboard that tells the shop computer when the valves need adjustment. You can't check the valves without the shop computer and the last I checked you can't get one in the Crapsman Tool section at Sears, Roebuck & Co.. The BMW diagnostic system has been explained in several magazine articles on the '05 and newer K1200GT.

If you follow the R bike maintenance schedule at home you are replacing alternator belts, throttle cables, doing spline lubes, throttle body synchs, etc at mileages starting as low as 24K for some items. You can do it yourself but you have to do things not even in a Honda manual.
 
Hello all,

I am new to this group but thought I would add my 2 cents... I currently have an '07 R1200GS. It is terrible. The exhaust had to be replaced due to plating coming off. Then the left heated grip quit working and back to the shop. Then the vibration became so bad it would buzz my hand to sleep. Back to the shop and after a week, there was a software upgrade. Took two extra days due to the fact that only a factory service tech could walk the mech through the process. And now, the low beam went out at 5K miles. Guess this is normal. First time in 60 motorcycles I have had to replace a bulb. Talking with the local BMW/Honda dealer about trading on an ST1300. Just way too many failures on the BMW's. Leaking rear seals, faulty ring antennas at the ignition, bulbs going out, clutches bad, splines wearing out, surging, bad starters, and who knows what else. I have had 6 BMW's and have had all of the above problems on these bikes. And the warranty.... $1800 for BMW extended to 5 years, $450 for the Honda to 7 years.
So, Monday will go to the dealers and get rid of this German high quality, overpriced junk and go with the ST. Hopefully I can ride it instead of waiting for repairs......
Just my thoughts... Hope the ST serves me better.... Jeff
 
Having ridden both, I like them both for entirely different reasons. I wish you could mate the two in a mill somewhere and come out with the best qualities of both combined into one machine.

But, you know that the final offspring wouldn't please everyone either. ;-)


PS - Welcome to the board, APOPJ. Sorry your BMW was a dud.
 
apopj said:
So, Monday will go to the dealers and get rid of this German high quality, overpriced junk and go with the ST. Hopefully I can ride it instead of waiting for repairs......
Just my thoughts... Hope the ST serves me better.... Jeff
Click to expand...

Sounds like someone is going to have a big smile on their face soon...

Mark
P.S.
Bulbs will go on the ST too; and next winter you'll have to tighten the hose clamps because the 1st sign of cold weather on an ST1300 is green drips. These items I consider to be minor for such a nice bike...
 
I test road a BMW R12 (opposed twin with the fairing and such) last June when I was looking at new bikes. It was the bike I pined for almost as much as the ST. The FJR didn't fit me well and I didn't care for the Goldwing but my wife loved the 'wing pillion.
I liked how the R12 rode a lot. It was smoother than I expected. Very stable. That para-lever suspension rides good. I liked the up-right riding position very much. It had plenty of power for me. (Only got it up to 90 on the test ride. The guy from the shop following me didn't say a word when we got back) It felt lighter than my ST, more nimble. Things I liked about the R12 was the factory equipment that came with the bike. Cruise, heated grips, power outlets, top box. You can add all that stuff to the ST but the fact is that YOU have to add them. The ST13 list was almost $16K and the BMW list was a little over $19k so that's in the ballpark. My first motorcycle cost $150!
I didn't choose the BMW for many of the reasons stated. Dealer network, maintenance expense, final drive concerns. I don't have anything tangible for those reasons so it's just my guess. I had a tough time deciding. I bought a '07 ST13 and couldn't be happier. I think I would have liked the BMW R12 as well. Pretty comparable machines I think.
 
Texas said:
I don't get it...However, I can say that if you have an issue with the ST being top heavy, you had better start taking some riding courses to sharpen your skills. The ST is a very easy bike to ride, and this includes turning sharply into a parking space, two up, fully loaded, at slow speed.

Texas
Click to expand...

I primarily ride cruisers so compared to them the ST is top heavy BUT I didn't find it unmanageable at all. I only had it out for 15 minutes and by the time I got back I was able to do some pretty tight figure 8's and did a right-hand and left-hand U-turn in the Honda parking lot.

Keep your head up while turning, don't look down, and most importantly DO NOT uses your front brakes while performing slow speed maneuvers and you should be OK. btw, I know the front brake mistake from experience. LOL!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom