I'd pay DOUBLE the price of regular nails for belt fed nails to not hand drive 5000 of them! (Or 500 IIH.)
Backyard Workshop / Garage and freezing canadian winters
- Thread starter ChriSTian_64
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Two more suggestions. Whatever the load, consider 50 amps @ 240 volts the minimum. Some day you might want to run a small welder out there. Down here in moderate Cleveland, a rough rule of thumb is 10 watts/sq ft for aux. heating. This assumes an 8' ceiling, normal (for us) insulation and windows (no glass walls), and the area is heated to around 50 deg F by other means (natural gas, or whatever, this number is providing auxiliary heat). So, for your shed, with 6" walls and good insulation, you are looking at around 25 watts/sq ft x your estimated 200 sq ft = 5000 watts of electric heat (a 30 amp circuit). This is no more than a swag (a scientific wild axe guess). There must be better tools to estimate your need on line for your area. In fact, an HVAC guy should be able to tell you right off approx. what you will need.
Bmacleod
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Andrew Shadow
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My personal preference would be a concrete floor over a wooden floor. Any oil, anti-freeze, grease, etc. that you drop on a wooden floor is much harder to clean than concrete unless you have covered it with something that can be easily scrubbed and washed off. I have no experience wirth such products and I don't know how much they would add to the cost. Concrete also provides a solid base over the entire area of the floor for anything heavy that that you might put in any location in the future. You don't have to try to plan for everything you might use the garage for in advance and make sure that you have provided proper support like you might have to do with a wooden floor. I find concrete makes a very good choice for a shop floor but obviously it is not the only option available. It comes down to what you plan to do in your shop I guess.
As for cost of concrete. You will have to price it out and campare it to a wooden floor keeping in mind that you are not buying wood for the floor. Many nurseries around the Montreal area sell mixed concrete in small quantities. You bring it home yourself in a concrete trailer that is included in the price, or they will deliver it for you. This is what I did when I poured a concrete floor for an 8 x 12 shed. Much easier this way. You need more people if you are going to mix it with a small mixer and pour it yourself. If you don't have enough people to keep the mixer running your concrete will start to set up before you have had enough time to mix it all, pour it all, trowel it all, etc.. I have done it this was as well and if you have enough people to keep all parts of the operation going simultaneously it is not a problem and does work well. Large commercial concrete companies often impose a minimum charge because they are operating eight yard or larger concrete trucks. On small jobs you often end up paying for a lot more concrete than you will use because of the minimum charge. Buying it from a nursery for a small concrete pour you avoid that as you can order only the amount that you need so it is often cheaper.
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Did you see those hardened nails in the hurricane straps that WILL hold my rafters intact if a hurricane blows over the homestead? Ok follow along here.
Each straps has 16 nails.
Those nails don't come made for automatic nail guns.
The nails wouldn't pierce the thick metal strap without a starter hole. I had to use a "pointed end" 1/2" tap to pierce every hole and that took 3 hammer hits minumum.
Another at least 2 hits to start the nails into the straps.
At least 6 swings to set the nails into the studs.
3+2+6=12 swings per nail used (minimum).
12x16 nails per strap =192 swings
There are 12 straps. 12x192=2304 hard swings just for the those straps with half the hits overhead. I spent 3 days on just those straps mainly because my arm-wrist kept getting sore!!
Each home made rafter has 60 nails holding the glued joints.......Even the darn air powered nail gun gets heavy in use for this old arthritic man.
I also shingled the roof, nails hand driven, most done while on a ladder. Bottom pitch too steep to stand on and the top pitch to scared to stand on 15 feet off the ground.
Next time, if there is, palm nailer or an air powered rivet gun (no, not pop rivet). Drives nails in seconds with just a push... and an air compressor.
sirbike
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I used luan as inside sheathing. It is lightweight, not as prone damage or absorbing moisture as drywall.
Less glue smell nicer looking less moisture absorbing than OSB.
Less glue smell nicer looking less moisture absorbing than OSB.
Add my name to the build it bigger if you can list, first. Then, even if electricity is cheap, if natural gas is available, it may be cheaper over time? Down here in southwestern Ontario it is.
Could you do this in stages and add items over the years to make it "larger" or "more complete" over time. I built a garage, only took me (I won't disclose) years to finish (16' x 30') It has 2" x 4" walls with Roxul in the walls, OSB inside and out, and 6 mil vapour barrier throughout. Concrete floor. Ceiling has OSB 12" of fibreglass pink blown in (easy to do yourself-just rent the machine). I keep it cool all winter (50 ish degrees) and heat it when I go in, if needed, for more comfort. In 5 minutes it is warmer, hence I could have had a smaller unit.
I heat it with a small unit heater https://bit.ly/2yF94oZ. It was supplied by one of our local HVAC companies. This one was a little cheaper than the Reznor (big name version). I did the install and prep work and I hired a gas guy for the final connections and sign off. It hangs just an inch off the ceiling and direct vents out the wall (chimney style available too). I went with the FSA 45 model, but in hindsight the FSA 30 would have been enough for my setting and more than enough for a smaller building (maybe too much). You would likely lose the square feet under it with an 8 foot ceiling, so plan to only have a bench or tool box under it to avoid hitting with head, if you go this route.
Oh, and if you go with a shed style unit my only other suggestion (until I think of the next thing) is a larger roll up style door than most sheds come with: something like https://www.rona.ca/en/roll-up-garage-door-60245073, or https://www.homehardware.ca/en/5-x-68-white-roll-up-garage-door/p/2873208, just as an example.
Could you do this in stages and add items over the years to make it "larger" or "more complete" over time. I built a garage, only took me (I won't disclose) years to finish (16' x 30') It has 2" x 4" walls with Roxul in the walls, OSB inside and out, and 6 mil vapour barrier throughout. Concrete floor. Ceiling has OSB 12" of fibreglass pink blown in (easy to do yourself-just rent the machine). I keep it cool all winter (50 ish degrees) and heat it when I go in, if needed, for more comfort. In 5 minutes it is warmer, hence I could have had a smaller unit.
I heat it with a small unit heater https://bit.ly/2yF94oZ. It was supplied by one of our local HVAC companies. This one was a little cheaper than the Reznor (big name version). I did the install and prep work and I hired a gas guy for the final connections and sign off. It hangs just an inch off the ceiling and direct vents out the wall (chimney style available too). I went with the FSA 45 model, but in hindsight the FSA 30 would have been enough for my setting and more than enough for a smaller building (maybe too much). You would likely lose the square feet under it with an 8 foot ceiling, so plan to only have a bench or tool box under it to avoid hitting with head, if you go this route.
Oh, and if you go with a shed style unit my only other suggestion (until I think of the next thing) is a larger roll up style door than most sheds come with: something like https://www.rona.ca/en/roll-up-garage-door-60245073, or https://www.homehardware.ca/en/5-x-68-white-roll-up-garage-door/p/2873208, just as an example.
I'm not sure of the tenor of that bit. Did you understand that I knew that driving 5000 nails was a LOT of work and I'd use a nail gun even if the nails weren't half price and even if they were DOUBLE the price of regular nails? And that even 500 nails would rate a nail gun for me? If my math is right that would mean I'd be willing to pay 4X the price you paid just so I didn't have to hammer them myself.
That would also be preferable to a lot hammering.T_C said:
The advantage is these over a traditional framer is they work well with brackets, joist hangers, hurricane clips, etc. The do make a framing nailgun now where the nail tip is a bit exposed so you can get it in the hole on most brackets, but think there is still a hard time using it on the toe-nailing part of hangers. If you have the money... buy one of each and loan them to me!
PS I bought the Harbor Fight mini palm nailer and I must say I am impressed. Worth the $15 for getting in tight places where you can't swing (or don't want to)!
Do you have some photos of your garage?
I'd also like to see the pics. I'm going to build a garage by myself and I'm interested in your result. Also, it would be great to find out (maybe it was mentioned here, but I didn't find) what you chose for heating. I talked to a guy from HVAC fair oaks service https://alphamechanicals.com/service-area/fair-oaks-hvac-service/ and he suggested a combination of a small electric heater to maintain a minimum temperature and a propane heater to provide additional warmth while working. As it was your plan, I would like to know if you ended up doing this and are satisfied with your decision.
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Andrew Shadow
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Since this thread started I had to redo the concrete floor in my garage. It was an unheated garage. After the floor was replaced I insulated and sealed up the garage so that I could use it in the cold Canadian winter. I ended up putting electric heating cables embedded in the concrete floor as the only heating source. It is a wonderful option. The floor is never cold. Once the garage is up to temperature it takes very little electricity to keep the temperature up. I haven't even noticed the extra electrical consumption on my utility bill however, my garage is extremely well insulated and sealed and is only large enough for one car. If you do decide to put in a concrete floor, this heating option is well worth consideration.
The other choice that I would consider is a heat pump. I have no idea what is available in the UK but here heat pumps have been available for a few years that are rated for -30°C. That is far and away all of the heat that you will need and you get air conditioning in the summer as well, which is really nice to have when you are working in the garage in hot humid weather.
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Two Bikes, fixed for you.
Andrew Shadow
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After having two bikes of completely different styles for years I'm sadly down to only one bike now.
ST1100Y
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FWIW, I followed my own advise and installed one in my shed (36m², ~380 sqft) ...
On sale for € 400,-, had to take it ...
Very happy, Inverter compressor, R32 refrigerant, 48°C discharge temp in HEAT ...
Bonus: a frost protect mode 8°C/45°F ...