Adding fork oil without removing forks

Uncle Phil, you're giving him the wrong advice. The screws UP is talking about are the bolts that hold the damper rods into the lower slider, NOT the drain screws.

The drain screws have a 10mm hex head, are on the side of the fork, and require nothing more than a light push with a hand tool.
 
The drain plugs can be removed with a 10mm socket or wrench and are on the outside of the fork above the axle. I had no trouble removing them, and didn't need an impact wrench. You will want to have something handy to catch the fork oil when it comes out. Also, remove the caps and springs etc. before draining.
 
Uncle Phil, you're giving him the wrong advice. The screws UP is talking about are the bolts that hold the damper rods into the lower slider, NOT the drain screws.

The drain screws have a 10mm hex head, are on the side of the fork, and require nothing more than a light push with a hand tool.

You're right according to the fiche (I looked it up since I can't trust my memory). Ah, the memory is not what is used to be. But I do remember dealing with those pesky bolts in the bottom when I rebuilt my forks and what a pain in the anatomy they were! :D
 
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You're probably right as the memory is not what is used to be. But I believe they are little different for the ABSII models.

yes, the ABSII models have no drain screws. So I guess if you didn't want to remove the forks to drain them, then you'd need to remove the bottom bolt on the ABSII models. But he has a non-ABS model.
 
yes, the ABSII models have no drain screws. So I guess if you didn't want to remove the forks to drain them, then you'd need to remove the bottom bolt on the ABSII models. But he has a non-ABS model.

The last two I did were ABSIIs, so that must have been where the brain cramp came in. :D

Now back to the regularly scheduled programming .... ;-)
 
Got it, thanks. So the springs have access to come out the top with the fork tubes still installed?
 
Got it, thanks. So the springs have access to come out the top with the fork tubes still installed?

with the stock bars there should be no interference AFAIK. Just be prepared for a lot of dripping oil falling onto your top triple clamp as you extract them.
 
Got it, thanks. So the springs have access to come out the top with the fork tubes still installed?

You will also have to deal with the damper rod on the right fork, which is a bear to get the nut re-installed on when the fork is off the bike, so being on the bike, I'd suggest you have an extra pair of hands nearby.

Also, be aware when you remove the caps, those springs are under a lot of tension.
 
To the other posters here, it seems we are dealing with an 1100 here. Note to Joey - put you year and model with your avatar.

You can't just "top the fork off" with oil. There is a specific height that the oil must be at and it isn't to the top. You have no idea how much oil you have lost, so it would be impossible to add the correct amount.

Not only that but how will you be able to measure how far the fork oil is from the top of the tube. It won't be vertical but instead at a 25 degree (or whatever the rake is) angle.
 
Not only that but how will you be able to measure how far the fork oil is from the top of the tube. It won't be vertical but instead at a 25 degree (or whatever the rake is) angle.

As someone else already mentioned, measure the level at the top edge of the tube and the bottom edge of the tube and average. Or measure at the left/right edge instead of top/bottom and that should be the same level as vertical forks.

To give you an idea of what to expect, say the I.D. of the fork tube is 40mm and the angle is 25°. The difference between the oil level at the fork tube top edge (low level) and bottom edge (high level) will be 40mm * tan(25°) = 18.65mm. So the oil at the top edge is going to be about 10mm low and the bottom edge 10mm high.
 
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As someone else already mentioned, measure the level at the top edge of the tube and the bottom edge of the tube and average. Or measure at the left/right edge instead of top/bottom and that should be the same level as vertical forks.

To give you an idea of what to expect, say the I.D. of the fork tube is 40mm and the angle is 25°. The difference between the oil level at the fork tube top edge (low level) and bottom edge (high level) will be 40mm * tan(25°) = 18.65mm. So the oil at the top edge is going to be about 10mm low and the bottom edge 10mm high.

The math will confuse him. Its easier to just lift the rear of the bike so the forks are vertical. Come to think about it, why not just invert the bike so the oil flows out the top and doesn't mess up the triple tree? :bow1:
 
I do fork oil without removing the forks all the time. The stock measure is to be 180mm from the top of the tube with the springs removed. That's the kicker.... if you are going to measure the correct air gap you have to remove the springs. At that point you aren't far away from just removing the shock if it needs a rebuild.

Mine did not need a rebuild and I was just changing out the springs. The first time was for Progressive units and they called for a 160mm air gap and the recent change was to straight wound Racetech springs and they require a 130mm air gap from the top of tube.

I'm not that fancy in my fill gauge and I use a straight long screwdriver. Two methods you can employ if you're leaving the shocks in the tree.... Either measure the gap in front and the rear of the two, add them together, then divide by 2 to get your fill if it where vertical and even all the way around... or use a flashlight and measure the far right and left, which should be about mid-point.

I should mention... I don't care if I'm 5mm off and the difference between the right and left "official" fill marks is something like 2mm. I just don't think it makes that much of a difference. I would go with the recommendation of whichever spring you have mounted, get real close to the fill (within 5mm preferably to the high side).

I would agree that if you don't have a huge leak, the amount you will lose should be fairly minor. However, rebuilding isn't difficult and wouldn't take a day.

However, I would disagree that you need to pull them to get a good flush. An option would be to buy an extra bottle of fork oil per side and fill, compress, drain 2x's before filling to the correct level. I would be hard pressed to think that a double flush would leave any amount of old oil that would be concerning. It's what I did because my seals are still good and I didn't get hardly any old oil the last drain. (I could tell because I used Belray 10w last time, which is a much darker color than the Honda 5w).

However... to each his own...

If you would like to borrow a damper tool... pm me and pay for shipping and I'll send you one. Or, shoot me $10 and shipping and I'll make you one.

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So this damper tool looks like some threaded rod, a piece of fuel line and some nuts backed against each other. How do you use it?

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The math will confuse him. Its easier to just lift the rear of the bike so the forks are vertical. Come to think about it, why not just invert the bike so the oil flows out the top and doesn't mess up the triple tree? :bow1:
Wow, rude.
 
So this damper tool looks like some threaded rod, a piece of fuel line and some nuts backed against each other. How do you use it?

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You are exactly correct. It is a 12 inch 3/8 threaded rod. I used fuel line (I actually think it was transmission line) that I had laying around to screw onto the end so my hands wouldn't get chewed up from the threads. I took the pic so guys could see what it is if they wanted to make one on their own. But, I also took a 9 inch chunk and slit it lengthwise to cover the remainder of the exposed threads in case they would come in contact with the fork tube during the process.

20180620_223439.jpg

So, you get a couple 3/8 inch nuts and one 10mm x 1.0 nut and that completes the tool. I took the 10mm x 1.0 nut and welded it to one of the 3/8 nuts. I thread the lone 3/8 nut to act as a lock nut. Then thread the 3/8 side of the newly created 3/8-10mm combo nut into the 3/8 rod and lock it down with the lock nut.

What you are left with is an empty 10mm x 1.0 nut on the end of a 12 inch shaft.

How does it work? I took a quick pic of my manual because a picture is worth a thousand words.

20180620_223843.jpg

The lower pic (46) is the damper rod being pulled up by a wire and sticking out of the fork tube. If you notice, there are threads above the lock nut that screw into the cap. Once the cap is removed, while you are fighting to compress the spring, line up the washers and insert the spring seat (really recommended to have even unskilled help), It really helps to have the ability to hold the damper rod up. The threads on the end of the damper rod are 10mm x 1.0, which is the exposed nut you have.

Once the spring seat is off the damper rod will drop down slowly into the fork tube. You simply thread the exposed nut onto the end and you have a "handle" to manipulate the damper rod.

Secondary benefit if you are flushing the fork without removal is you can pump clean fluid in and out of the chamber by raising and lowering the damper rod. It makes oil changes easy on that side.

As you're setting the oil level you will need to fill the lower chamber by pumping the damper rod until you can feel the even pressure of the air being gone. This makes it easy.
 
You are exactly correct. It is a 12 inch 3/8 threaded rod. I used fuel line (I actually think it was transmission line) that I had laying around to screw onto the end so my hands wouldn't get chewed up from the threads. I took the pic so guys could see what it is if they wanted to make one on their own. But, I also took a 9 inch chunk and slit it lengthwise to cover the remainder of the exposed threads in case they would come in contact with the fork tube during the process.

20180620_223439.jpg

So, you get a couple 3/8 inch nuts and one 10mm x 1.0 nut and that completes the tool. I took the 10mm x 1.0 nut and welded it to one of the 3/8 nuts. I thread the lone 3/8 nut to act as a lock nut. Then thread the 3/8 side of the newly created 3/8-10mm combo nut into the 3/8 rod and lock it down with the lock nut.

What you are left with is an empty 10mm x 1.0 nut on the end of a 12 inch shaft.

How does it work? I took a quick pic of my manual because a picture is worth a thousand words.

20180620_223843.jpg

The lower pic (46) is the damper rod being pulled up by a wire and sticking out of the fork tube. If you notice, there are threads above the lock nut that screw into the cap. Once the cap is removed, while you are fighting to compress the spring, line up the washers and insert the spring seat (really recommended to have even unskilled help), It really helps to have the ability to hold the damper rod up. The threads on the end of the damper rod are 10mm x 1.0, which is the exposed nut you have.

Once the spring seat is off the damper rod will drop down slowly into the fork tube. You simply thread the exposed nut onto the end and you have a "handle" to manipulate the damper rod.

Secondary benefit if you are flushing the fork without removal is you can pump clean fluid in and out of the chamber by raising and lowering the damper rod. It makes oil changes easy on that side.

As you're setting the oil level you will need to fill the lower chamber by pumping the damper rod until you can feel the even pressure of the air being gone. This makes it easy.

Ok thanks. Makes sense. Have done fork oil changes on NC700X and NC700XD and a CBRXX (complete custom cartridge install) and my 07 ST. I will pay attention next time and see if I need to make this so my life is easier. Thanks!

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Nice take on the damper rod holder, Dale.

If one doesn’t weld, here’s two other ideas from over the years:
- coat hanger and a bolt and two nuts from the hardware store
- aluminum rod stock drilled and tapped (this one is in the STOC loaner Fork Seals R&R Tool Kit)

74F20819-8173-4563-AE14-12BFE4C48AA6.jpg 59960282-DB45-4F05-9D54-2C6241EC6C6B.jpg

Edit: pull the forks and do the job right. JMHO You’ll never get a proper pump-n-flush x 3 to get all the crud out with the forks mounted. N.B.- use a mechanical (NOT hydraulic) jack and be careful not to rip the brake line out when lowering the front end, fork cap loosened.
 
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............ pull the forks and do the job right.

Agreed, you can't do a proper flush and refill to the correct level with the forks on the bike. It's a pain to strip off the wheel, the calipers and fender but when everything is part I have great access to clean the front wheel, the brake pads, the brake pistons and as well as the front of the rad. and all the plastic that is hard to reach when the wheel is on.
 
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