Modern Motorcycles... and Technology

This has made me think.......oh dear, anything can happen now and it's likely to be less than good.
You know when some young hotshot went into his Powersports emporium in the 90's, can you picture it? He was wearing the latest kit and full face helmet and his gaze was drawn to a fancy candy blue ST1100 ABS/TCS. Integrated luggage including accessory Topbox, electronic sparks, shaft drive, proper fairing and space for two. OK, it was nothing earth shattering but in the world of ST, this had moved the competition back a notch or two.
The purchase was obviously made and those easy payments wouldn't hurt.......too much.
When he rode it on a warm morning to the local diner and parked it next to the less advanced competition I wonder what the others thought, I'm guessing "too much tech, it'll never catch on, who needs ABS and what is TCS". Well those are the bikes you are riding fellas. Is there too much Tech on a 90's ST1100? Maybe, maybe not, but you're riding them and enjoying them. No?
Too much is just an expression of the moment, tomorrow it will be too little.
I told you I shouldn't think.
Upt.
 
Upt' North said:
... rode it on a warm morning to the local diner and parked it next to the less advanced competition ...
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I'm very positive that scene had Robert Palmer's Addicted To Love playing... :laugh:
(Big Kay's Diner, The Wraith Reveal...and I'm still not fully convinced that Honda picked that "Angry Aubergine" paint scheme out of coincidence :sneaky:
but aside all kidding, this is how it almost felt, everyone silently staring at you arriving on an ST1100... :unsure:)

However, till the mid 90ies things weren't over-engineered just for the sake of it, and above all high quality and build to last...
How many recalls had that 1100 again? ... O.N.E. ...
A few bank angle sensors seeped silicone oil in the brutal heat of the southern sun... Honda instantly went global on replacing...
 
Sadlsor said:
My '22 1250 GSA has a nifty but completely unnecessary "feature" called Hill Assist or similar, and automagically senses when you come to a stop on an incline, and will apply the brakes for you.

I suppose that may be so that you can put both feet on the ground, and pick your nose or apply your eye liner with your right hand, rather than hold the brake lever to avoid rolling backwards - or forward - down the hill.

But that also means you have to factor in extra finesse getting into the friction zone going uphill, in order to release the brakes without stalling.

Once I messed it up stopping on a hill at a traffic light, stalled the engine, and instantly got an ⚠️ alert on the TFT to the effect of some engine calibration error, and to proceed to my nearest authorized BMW facility. Not just any old UNauthorized BMW facility mind you, oh no. Only the nearest "authorized" BMW facility.

And it would not start. And it would not start, and it would not start. I had to wave the cars behind me around, before the light changed to red again.

Once it turned back to red, i tried to clear the alert with the wonder wheel, but it took several attempts to make it disappear, and then it finally permitted me to start the motor again. I was rather frustrated, not knowing which safety feature i had so annoyed in my ignorance, made worse with the knowledge I was holding up traffic.

Later that evening, I did a full scan of the bike's system with my GS-911. Nothing was recorded.

The preceding events were related here, to illustrate the possible consequences of heavy-handed, unnecessary electronic wizardry on a .modern motorcycle, with the possibility of disabling your ride.

In simpler times, a man could just hold the bike on a hill with either brake, and then roll on the throttle while releasing the brake and clutch.
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Designed by the one engineer on staff who doesn't ride motorcycles & once saw a post on the web about technique for moving on an incline when stopped. :rolleyes:
 
ST1100Y said:
I'm very positive that scene had Robert Palmer's Addicted To Love playing... :laugh:
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I would have been heard "Take The Highway", by the Marshall Tucker Band.

Or "Rockin' Down The Highway" by the Doobie Brothers".

Or "They Call Me The Breeze" by Lynyrd Skynyed.

I could go on, but y'all get the idea...
 
Sadlsor said:
I would have been heard "Take The Highway", by the Marshall Tucker Band.
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The movie reference might have skipped you... ;)

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I have never ridden a motorcycle equipped with hill assist. What happens if you are stopped facing uphill and you need or want to roll backwards down the hill while the the hill assist is preventing that? Is it a simple matter of pushing one button to disable it, or what needs to be done to be able to roll backwards?
 
Andrew Shadow said:
That has already been tested in court somewhere (I don't remember where) and the judge ruled that the person who was operating the vehicle was responsible. To me this seems to be really quite simple. Most jurisdictions have laws to the effect that anyone operating a vehicle is responsible to be in control of that vehicle at all times. If you choose to defer that responsibility to the vehicle rather than park it yourself, you take your chances. Having said that I am know full well that once the lawyers get involved it will not end up being that clear.
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Let me play lawyer here.
The product was sold advertised to do a function.
The product caused damages.
The manufacturer of the product is responsible.

Should be no different than a steering wheel or brake pedal that does not perform the intended function when acted upon.

Yeah, in real life it’s more complicated, real life lawyers are involved.
 
A technology question for the BMW GS crowd.

An older gentleman who I know has a 2019 R1250GS. He really likes, says that it is easily the best motorcycle that he has ever had and that says a lot coming from a guy who has been riding for over 60 years. He likes to reset the trip meter whenever he fuels up but one thing that drives him nuts with this bike is he says that he can never figure out how to reset the trip meter. In an effort to help him out I looked at an on-line owners manual and the instructions seemed quite clear. It simply stated that while the trip meter is displayed pushing and holding button # 1 resets the trip meter. I really don't know if the version of the manual that I was looking at was the correct one for his GS however, so I guess different models can have different procedures.

He isn't a stupid person, and this is his second late model GS that he has had in succession. I would like to think that he has read the instructions also. I would like to be able to help him out but I know nothing of late model BMW's. Is there something about the procedure to reset the trip meter that anyone can add that I can pass on to him?
 
Upt' North said:
This has made me think.......oh dear, anything can happen now and it's likely to be less than good.
You know when some young hotshot went into his Powersports emporium in the 90's, can you picture it? He was wearing the latest kit and full face helmet and his gaze was drawn to a fancy candy blue ST1100 ABS/TCS. Integrated luggage including accessory Topbox, electronic sparks, shaft drive, proper fairing and space for two. OK, it was nothing earth shattering but in the world of ST, this had moved the competition back a notch or two.
The purchase was obviously made and those easy payments wouldn't hurt.......too much.
When he rode it on a warm morning to the local diner and parked it next to the less advanced competition I wonder what the others thought, I'm guessing "too much tech, it'll never catch on, who needs ABS and what is TCS". Well those are the bikes you are riding fellas. Is there too much Tech on a 90's ST1100? Maybe, maybe not, but you're riding them and enjoying them. No?
Too much is just an expression of the moment, tomorrow it will be too little.
I told you I shouldn't think.
Upt.
Click to expand...

I can vividly remember my father, my younger brother and I all riding to the local Honda dealer in 1969 to see the new Honda CB 750. They had it on a pedestal in the middle of the show room. We stared at it for awhile and came to the conclusion it would never sell...too big, too many carbs, too many pipes, too many pistons, too many valves, too complicated.

We repeated the scenario in 1975 when the Goldwing came out..sitting on the same pedistal in the middle of the showroom.. our conclusion....this things a two wheeled car...radiator, drive shaft. too big, too heavy and for petes sake the gas tank isn't even a gas tank, they store the kickstarter in there. Too complicated, it will never sell.

The point is technology grows on us and we learn to accept it... although obviously I'm a slow learner.
 
I have never ridden a bike with hill hold but the car I had with it just required you to slightly release the clutch and a little bit of accelerater and then push the clutch in and you would roll. After a while it is as intuitive as the rest of the manual driving skills.
 
the Ferret said:
I can vividly remember my father, my younger brother and I all riding to the local Honda dealer in 1969 to see the new Honda CB 750. They had it on a pedestal in the middle of the show room. We stared at it for awhile and came to the conclusion it would never sell...too big, too many carbs, too many pipes, too many pistons, too many valves, too complicated.

We repeated the scenario in 1975 when the Goldwing came out..sitting on the same pedistal in the middle of the showroom.. our conclusion....this things a two wheeled car...radiator, drive shaft. too big, too heavy and for petes sake the gas tank isn't even a gas tank, they store the kickstarter in there. Too complicated, it will never sell.

The point is technology grows on us and we learn to accept it... although obviously I'm a slow learner.
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Exactly my point Ferret.
We don't believe seat belts will kill us anymore, or airbags will explode for no good reason. We don't shy away from ABS, TC, or digital instruments.
Just like you with your 750, you've even got a "frunk"!
My only true concern with technology is that I'm not convinced there are that many techies who actually understand the present technology let alone the future.
I suspect there will be many vehicles with maybe relative simple faults, or no faults at all that simply can't be fixed and EML's will glow constantly.
But it's the future and it all started with the first twin cylinder motorcycle, someone said, "why do we need two"?
 
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Andrew Shadow said:
I have never ridden a motorcycle equipped with hill assist. What happens if you are stopped facing uphill and you need or want to roll backwards down the hill while the the hill assist is preventing that? Is it a simple matter of pushing one button to disable it, or what needs to be done to be able to roll backwards?
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On my Goldwing the Hill Start Assist works like this. At a stop (wheels completely stopped, in gear, side stand up) you squeeze the the front brake lever quickly to engage HSA. The HSA light illuminates and some rear brake is pressurized to hold the bike from rolling backwards or forwards. If you are already holding small pressure on the brake lever at the stop, you squeeze it little harder quickly to engage HSA. HSA only works for about 3 seconds and disengages - HSA light goes out and brake pressure is released. If you could not start and go ahead in that 3 seconds you can reengage it as before. To release it during the 3 seconds it disengages as soon as the throttle is opened. I have a DCT so disengage HSA to roll backwards at will during the 3 seconds you barely crack the throttle, not even enough to move, maybe 50 or 100 rpm, and HSA disengages.
 
Sadlsor said:
Yeah, but your part of Texas doesn't have lots of hills, whereas in Birmingham it's very hilly. Still... I managed to ride motorcycles all around here for 50 years, without Hill Assist... and I was damned good at it. I still am, when computers don't get in my way.



Like my '75 Norton Commando Interstate. Dead simple. But usually, simply dead.
It simply wouldn't stay running, but it was mostly WWII-era Lucas (the devil) archaic wiring technology, not modern computer-driven logic modules.
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I only rode my Bonneville as far as I wanted to push it back home. A bit of an exaggeration but not much. Still, there is something about those brit bikes that is so appealing. Maybe it's the bond that develops as they turn ordinary men into mechanics. Awe, she neeeeds me.
 
ST1100TX said:
I only rode my Bonneville as far as I wanted to push it back home. A bit of an exaggeration but not much. Still, there is something about those brit bikes that is so appealing. Maybe it's the bond that develops as they turn ordinary men into mechanics. Awe, she neeeeds me.
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I bought a 1973 Triumph 750 Trident (3 cylinder) new and really had no trouble to speak of.
The triples didn't vibrate stuff loose as badly as the twins and singles.
After 25,000 miles or so it leaked more oil than the gas it burned so I parked it and later sold it (Wish I hadn't now).
Don't recall it ever leaving me on the side of the road and I did some long trips on it.
First one was 3,500+ miles in 2 weeks.

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