No more ethanol free gas in lower mainland [BC]

Chris09

Chris09

Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
1,032
Age
63
Location
Coquitlam British Columbia Canada
Bike
2009 ST1300
From what I understand, it's all over for ethanol free gas in the lower mainland. It had to come sooner or later.
Spoke with a guy at my local Chevron and he tells me that it's been that way for a month already. He also tells me that he's heard a few guys say that it might [for some reason] be better to use the Shell 93 octane now [even though it also has ethanol].
Chevron premium is still listed at the pumps at 94 octane but when I had to fuel up at Shell a couple weeks ago, their top rated fuel jumped from 91 to 93. My understanding is that they also no longer sell any grade of ethanol free fuel.
Not so concerned with my FI bikes; easy enough to rotate fuel out and run periodically and I've had ethanol fuel sit for six months without any problems.
But I have some old to very old carburated engines that foul in a matter of weeks to months with ethanol.
I've never used any fuel additives and was wondering if anyone can say with any evidence that any particular fule stabilizer product works [before] there's a problem.
 
I use this in all my small machines. Chainsaw, weed eater, generators etc. In my bike, vehicles. I have used it for years and I can leave fuel in all my stuff and it doesn’t rot anything or go bad. I also add it to stored gas and can use the gas months later without any problems. We have power outages here due to weather so I always try to have some gas available. On occasion I have driven two hours to get gas. So I take gas storage seriously, albeit on a small scale. 10 or 20 gallons etc. I don’t purposely add it to my vehicles I just use the stored gas when I need to. 5 gallons in the bike, 2 gallons in the mower for example. I only use the stored gas if I need to. Of course this increases the overall cost of the fuel I use but I feel like I have good reliable fuel when I use it. It’s a nice feeling when in the past I have had bad fuel related problems. Those days are gone.

 
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I have used StaBil in 10% ethanol fuel since the mid 90’s with no issue. Boat engines inboard and outboard, lawn equipment, carburetor and FI motorcycles also for 6 to 12 month stored fuel intended for hurricane generator use. There’s no boogie man hiding in 10% gasoline regardless of octane level.
 
I was disappointed that early last winter the "May contain up to 10% percent ethanol" label appeared on the 91 pump at my local Costco. That's too bad. It's very convenient for me to gas up there so I'm still using it. I'll have to try and find some non-ethanol somewhere before the ST gets parked for the winter. Darn corn farmers.
 
I wrote to Shell Canada last year after “contains no ethanol” stickers were removed from the 91 pumps asking whether there was any non-ethanol gas to be had. Here is the response:

Dear Customer,

Note: For additional questions, please reply to shelltechnical-ca@shell.comreferencing the case number above (please do not change the subject line)

Please find below the information regarding your enquiry send to technical helpdesk.

Case No: 00360977
Enquiry: Ethanol in Premium?
Response:
Good morning

Starting in 2022, all gasoline grades sold in Canada will be blended with 10% ethanol, including premium gasoline (V-Power 91 and 93), according to proposed regulations (10% ethanol Federal Clean Fuel Regulation for 2022, Low Carbon Fuel Requirements and need to reduce the carbon intensity of fossil fuels, which ethanol is one mechanism to reduce carbon intensity). All the provinces are switching slowly, and If you see the label at the pump, “Gasoline may contain up to 10% Ethanol” is already happening.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
Don't be to trusting of the information on that site. For gas stations anywhere around Quebec and Ontario that I have checked at least, it is so inaccurate that I stopped looking at it years ago.
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Users are asked to update the info. It's accurate about the stations near me.

Of course, I would call to confirm before riding to a station, just to be sure.
 
Anything with Marine on it grabs my attention, so will try the STA-BIL with some horrible gas and various metal bits in a mix for the winter and check the goo in the spring. It was the US Coast Guard that alerted planet earth that there were a bunch of boats out there that were, well, not faring well [for lack of a better descriptor] when this garbage gas debuted.
I know that E85 [which I don't see too much here] may contain as much as 85% ethanol but is somewhat consistently around 75% in the US, and that you need about 25 to 30 more fuel [through any carb jets] by volume, but there's also more talk of E95 which I can only imagine is corn with a wiff of real gas, so I guess it's time to give the jets a vigorous cleaning as well.
 
Chevron had the no ethanol label here up until recently; they just never bragged about it [at the pump] when they changed. I know overall they had to blend so much ethanol into all of their fuel, but I think they leaned into the other grades to keep the 94 real. I just took 18 month old 94 / 50:1 oil to the recycler which I used to run my Johnson 110 V4 two stroke [started first crank and looked perfect], probably should have kept it.
 
Chris09 said:
From what I understand, it's all over for ethanol free gas in the lower mainland. It had to come sooner or later.
Spoke with a guy at my local Chevron and he tells me that it's been that way for a month already. He also tells me that he's heard a few guys say that it might [for some reason] be better to use the Shell 93 octane now [even though it also has ethanol].
Chevron premium is still listed at the pumps at 94 octane but when I had to fuel up at Shell a couple weeks ago, their top rated fuel jumped from 91 to 93. My understanding is that they also no longer sell any grade of ethanol free fuel.
Not so concerned with my FI bikes; easy enough to rotate fuel out and run periodically and I've had ethanol fuel sit for six months without any problems.
But I have some old to very old carburated engines that foul in a matter of weeks to months with ethanol.
I've never used any fuel additives and was wondering if anyone can say with any evidence that any particular fule stabilizer product works [before] there's a problem.
Click to expand...
My experience is I've never had a problem with ethanol. My car, bike, lawnmower, lawn equipment, all run fine on the cheapest 87 octane I can find. I do use reqular Stabil though for storage.
 
Yeah, performance wise, you get same power with loss of mileage when using E10. It's long-term storage that's issue where it absorbs moisture out of air and separates. Much, much worse for carby bikes with vented fuel-system. I like to use Sta-bil Marine 360 when storing carb bikes. Has higher concentration of stabilisers.
 
Jjonahjamison said:
I wrote to Shell Canada last year after “contains no ethanol” stickers were removed from the 91 pumps asking whether there was any non-ethanol gas to be had. Here is the response:

Dear Customer,

Note: For additional questions, please reply to shelltechnical-ca@shell.comreferencing the case number above (please do not change the subject line)

Please find below the information regarding your enquiry send to technical helpdesk.

Case No: 00360977
Enquiry: Ethanol in Premium?
Response:
Good morning

Starting in 2022, all gasoline grades sold in Canada will be blended with 10% ethanol, including premium gasoline (V-Power 91 and 93), according to proposed regulations (10% ethanol Federal Clean Fuel Regulation for 2022, Low Carbon Fuel Requirements and need to reduce the carbon intensity of fossil fuels, which ethanol is one mechanism to reduce carbon intensity). All the provinces are switching slowly, and If you see the label at the pump, “Gasoline may contain up to 10% Ethanol” is already happening.
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That's interesting. I'm currently vacationing in Atlantic Canada (Quebec) and saw this:
View media item 517
For non-francophones:
  • Regular: Up to 10% Ethanol
  • Intermediate: Up to 5% Ethanol
  • Supreme: No Ethanol
I wonder how accurate that is, or are they just slow on changing the signs?
 
Also never had a problem with E10 fuel. Our Costco has always had E10 fuel for both grades they carry and is also the closest, easiest, location to get gas.
Long, LONG, ago (1978) when I first used Ethanol in an old used car (not FI) that I had there was one problem that happened but not actually due to using Ethanol. It was due to that car always having used NON-Ethanol for so long that there was a deposit that built up on the lines and in the tank. The E10 cleaned that off and that's what gummed up the fuel filter. I replace the fuel filter and had no more issues. Another car just after that (in 1983), and also a used car from out of state, had non-Ethanol fuel in it and the fuel lines froze from un-absorbed water in the lines while riding cross country in sub-zero F temps in a snow storm. Barely made it to a service station in a small town and was back on the road after sitting in the warmer garage for a half hour. Put Ethanol in and never again had that problem no matter what the temps for the same car.

I also use Sta-Bil in all my gas powered lawn/yard/snow machines. Now I only have the one gas powered JD tractor and everything else is battery or corded electric. Soon (I think) even the JD will be gone as well and I won't be concerned with treating fuel in any of my machines. The cars get used often enough to not need treatment in that fuel. But the battery in at least one car needs the Battery Tender connected since it does sit for up to 2 months just parked in the garage (new battery so that's not the problem... just a modern car with lots of phantom loads).
 
The only time I have ill effects with the 10% ethanol blended gas in carburetors, is when I let them sit in the carburetor bowl for 6-12 months without running. This causes an almost plastic, chunky, varnish type substance (normally gums up the float). I don't know how much of this can be blamed entirely on the ethanol, I believe straight gas does this too after some point. I have read that ethanol does attract water which can cause fuel to break down quicker, but have nothing to compare it to.

I do use Sta-Bil in gas cans that I fill (5 gallons may last me a year). I also have added fuel shut off valves to all my intermittent use small engines (rototiller, pressure washer, brush mower, etc.), ever since then I have had no issue as long as you use the shut off and let the carbs burn off whatever is left before putting it up.

If you are absolutely set on running non-ethanol and don't mind the cost. Lawn equipment stores carry "TruFuel" for ~$28 USD per US gallon which is ethanol free. Here is a screenshot for my area (I did check and it appears Home Depot Canada carries it as well):
1693171061226.png


Ryan
 
In late September I'd start filling up the ST with non-ethanol Shell premium in anticipation of 4 - 5 months of storage, Always used Stabil as well, never any issues. Used Shell non-ethanol premium for all small gas engines year round due to relatively infrequent use as well storage reasons. Always used Stabil as well.

Tracer uses premium, but the non-ethanol version is no longer available. Used Stabil over the 2022/23 winter storage season. No issues.

Ethanol in gas, IMHO, is pure politics. The corn farmers have your local politicians in their pockets. During gas shortages years ago there may well have been an incentive to grow corn to produce ethanol to displace scarce gas, but the total carbon footprint of this process makes no sense. It's better to burn 100% gas than to plant, fertilize, cultivate, control weeds, harvest and ship millions of bushels of corn to make ethanol.
 
ReSTored said:
It's better to burn 100% gas than to plant, fertilize, cultivate, control weeds, harvest and ship millions of bushels of corn to make ethanol.
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Not to mention that the international agencies that battle starvation around the world have condemned the fact that using so much corn for fuel in wealthy countries undermines their ability to feed starving populations. This is due to there being less corn available to them, and what is available is more expensive for them to acquire because of this practice. So not only is this practice bogus from a scientific perspective, it is also highly questionable on an ethical footing as well.
 
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Curious about these assertions I wanted to learn a little about how much ethanol production affects human food stocks. It turns out that corn used for ethanol production is not suitable for human consumption. Farmers raise field corn for ethanol and livestock feed. Humans eat a different type of corn, sweet corn. About 10% of corn production in North America is high fructose sweet corn for human consumption and the rest goes to field corn used in livestock feed. Only a portion of the kernel of field corn is used for ethanol and the rest of the corn goes to animal feed so ethanol production doesn’t really have much affect on animal feed stocks. If no corn was used for ethanol it is argued that animal feed would cost less leading to lower meat and dairy costs but that argument ignores that corn prices in the US have been less than production costs for decades. We as a nation have policy that corn farm subsidies are important to maintaining the adequate supply of corn in order to hold the farm gate cost down. Otherwise supply would have to drop in order to drive up prices and we aren’t willing to let that happen. I’m sure there is considerable debate about this depending on where one gets their information.
 
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