After tire change, handlebars wiggle/feel unsettled at low speeds

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NobodySpecial

NobodySpecial

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Sep 9, 2018
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Location
South Central WI
Bike
2004 ST1300A
I recently performed a front and rear tire service on my 2004 ST.
The previous tires - Pirelli Angel GT - were super duper worn and very done, and I put on a pair of tires that the PO sent with the bike - Shinko Verge 011. I had a local shop that has a good reputation do the tire mount and balance, etc. I got new valve stems, too. While there, I cleaned the brake pistons and replaced the ALOC bolt and rear pads with Honda OEM. I very carefully (four times now!) have followed the manual for sequence and torque values for the front, and I'm confident I did the rear in the right sequence (ALOC bolt first, then axle torque).

Here is the issue: whether decelerating or not, regardless of gear, I get head shake at low speeds. It's bad enough that I wouldn't want to take my hands off the bars, from 45 indicated and slowing to 43 or 42. Above that speed, I'm not sure I can feel anything and the bike is smooth as glass (up to around the maximum posted limits around here - 70/75 mph). Below 40mph the head shake disappears but I still think I can feel something in the bars.

I've re-done the torque sequence for the front at least four times, sometimes loosening and retorquing the front axle as well (in sequence). No change.
I've got maybe 300 miles on the tires.

The steering stem bearings feel excellent - no play, no notchiness, nada.

45K miles on bike.

It may be worth noting that when I first took the bike out after my service, the rear brake "pulsed" - I chalked that up to maybe an accidental greasy fingerprint or thumbprint on the disk brakes and new pads. It's largely disappeared, but I can maybe feel something in the rear brake.

I've read that others have had this issue with these tires, but I'd really like to rule out some mistake I've made first.
 
Sounds like steering head bearing to me. Consider replacing with tapered bearings and most likely your problem will go away forever.
This is a fairly common situation on ST1300 and Goldwings.

I looked at my maintenance records and I did mine at 58,954 miles and the bike now has 138,xxx miles with no issues at all with decel wobble.
 
NobodySpecial said:
But why would it show up immediately after a tire change?
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It shows up when you least expect it. If tires are balanced ( which I assume they are) then that pretty much leaves the steering head bearing. You might be able to get away with tightening the stem nut carefully to get the wobble to go away. There is a very specific procedure in the service manual about tightening the steering head stem nut.

It could possibly be a bad set or tires, but not likely.
 
Start with the basics... did you check the tire pressure? Retorque all the bolts? Are there any balance weights on it?
 
NobodySpecial said:
But why would it show up immediately after a tire change?
Click to expand...
Yes it would. New tires slightly change the geometry of the bike. (Rake and trail) puts a different pressure on the head bearings. Tire brands get blamed yadayada. In theory the head bearings should be retorqued when the bike gets it’s first service when new. Rarely does it get done, so they tend to wear out more. When new bearings are installed it is advisable to have them checked after the first thousand miles.
 
Front tire pressure is a good thought. A lot of shops will put 36 in a tire. up that to 40-42 and see.
I like Steering head bearings as well.
How well did you check the Front Wheel bearings?
 
First question that popped into my head was....did the shop drop or lean one of your rims on the brake rotor?
When you re-installed the rear wheel, did you make sure your pads were seated square and correctly, by viewing the foot of the pads from both sides, and the rear pad sitting square against the caliper? You may have placed the edge of the pad on the upper spring clip and bent one of the little retaining tabs.
The obvious things, such as, are the front wheel spacers inserted correctly (I've found them backwards and inside out before).
Has your preload adjuster been serviced recently? Is it out of fluid? The rear wheel drives the motorcycle etc.
Since this just occurred after a tire change, I'd search a little bit for the cause rather than jumping to conclusions and changing steering head bearings.
I know I'll get flamed for this....but tapered bearings are NOT the correct style of bearings for your steering head, the ball and cage type are better suited for this application, since there is very little movement in steering. Tapered bearings are best left for wheels etc.
You'll get a dozen replies saying that they've used them, and their better, etc. However, there was a reason Honda chose the bearings used on your bike.
 
I'll try to address the few questions that have cropped up:

@Slydynbye 's questions:

  1. Tire pressure was 39 F + R. I normally run 42. I tried 44 today. No change.
  2. How well did I check the Front Wheel bearings? Using two fingers to rotate the bearings, I gave 'em a couple of complete rotations. Very smooth, no sandiness or issues.

@Igofar 's:

First question that popped into my head was....did the shop drop or lean one of your rims on the brake rotor?
Click to expand...

Drop? I'd be very surprised. Lean? I myself may have transported it back home from the shop on the rotor. Gently, however, on cardboard.

When you re-installed the rear wheel, did you make sure your pads were seated square and correctly, by viewing the foot of the pads from both sides, and the rear pad sitting square against the caliper? You may have placed the edge of the pad on the upper spring clip and bent one of the little retaining tabs.
Click to expand...

OOh. I hadn't thought of that. What impact would that have? I will check that tomorrow for sure.

The obvious things, such as, are the front wheel spacers inserted correctly (I've found them backwards and inside out before).
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure. Big one on the ABS side, and they only go up against the dust seal in one way (I think). I'll take some pictures...

Has your preload adjuster been serviced recently? Is it out of fluid? The rear wheel drives the motorcycle etc.
Click to expand...

Yes! I serviced it last fall. From fully "out" it starts to dig in around 1-1.5 turns in. Per your recommendation, I run it at 5 clicks (2.5 turns). I've tried more or less, however ; no change.

Since this just occurred after a tire change, I'd search a little bit for the cause rather than jumping to conclusions and changing steering head bearings.
Click to expand...

This gives me hope. I feel like when I'm done I'll have one original left mirror and everything else will be new.
 
It IS possible to put the left side front wheel spacer in backwards. One side is approximately 5 mm and the other is about 10 mm. I've seen shops put them in backwards and cause the hub of the wheel to wear against the inside of the fork tube. You should be able to see witness marks, both the the inside of the collar and on the collar that inserts into the wheel from where it sat before (rings) or if you notice alot of black grease on the spacer, that may indicate that its inside out :rofl1:
I don't understand why folks put on cheap tires, stick with the major name brands.
Call me tomorrow if you'd like and we'll discuss it further, as I'm too tired to type right now.
 
It sounds as though the wheel may be moving sideways on the axle a little bit.

This is possible for example if the spacers are wrongly placed. Also if the axle bolt is not clamping all of the axle components together. This is can happen if the pinch bolts on the fork leg were tightened before the axle bolt was fully torqued.

If you have no way of holding the axle to stop it turning when tightening the axle bolt on the right of the bike, (brake lever side), then push the axle through from the left (clutch lever side) as far as it will go and make sure that the left end of the axle is not sticking out of the hole. If it does, then something may be stopping the axle from passing through the bearings and spacers..
Hold the axle by tightening the left (clutch lever side) pinch bolts. Torque up the main axle bolt and then undo the pinch bolts.

Then foĺlow the sequence for bouncing forks and tightening pinch bolts.

Link to animation in post #1
 
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I had the exact same problem after a new tire install. I checked and rechecked everything that has been suggested and dealt with it until I had a front flat. Got a new front front tire and the wobble went away.

Brad
 
+1 on making sure the left / right spacers on the front wheel are on the correct side... but, that usually results in the front brake dragging so I doubt that's it but it is possible.

Did this start immediately after the tire change or did you have a few miles on the tire first? It could just be a bad tire.. I had a bad roadsmart that looked and balanced perfectly but at speeds above around 65 the front end would start hopping... that was after about 100 miles on the tire.

I would also use this sequence for torquing the front wheel:

Article [13] - ST1300 - Pulls to the Right | ST1300 Articles

Ok. So I did some homework in regards to some of the complaints that the ST is pulling to the right. Unofficially, it looks like it may indeed be a set up issue. If this is the cause, then it means that the problem is dealer related and not Ma Honda's fault. When the ST's arrive at the dealer in...
www.st-owners.com www.st-owners.com
 
No matter what tire brand you by, some bad ones will always slip past quality control while some look perfect but may have an internal construction issue. Not saying it is definitely the tire, just suggesting that "new" doesn't mean perfect. Wobble is BAD, don't give up! Getting home safely always trumps the alternative, good luck.
 
Igofar said:
I don't understand why folks put on cheap tires, stick with the major name brands
Click to expand...
Regarding Shinko tires. Just because they are inexpensive does not make them cheap. They are a good tire. Never any doubt of their ability to hold the road, wet or dry. I have ran and am currently running a Raven on the rear and the Verge on the front. Those that know TipSTer, have seen that that man runs a little quicker than most of us and he can attest to the Shinko's ability on the ST1300. If you want to spend 2x the cost of these tires, go ahead. I trust them. That is why I buy the "cheaper" cost tire.
 
As far as the steering head bearings, it only takes a minute with a fish scale or luggage scale to get a good idea if the preload is in the ballpark. If you do a pull test and it is between 3 and 5 pounds, I would think its safe to look elsewhere. If it were low, I would start by adjusting that. Also, is the tire mounted in the right direction? Not familiar with that tire and it may not have a directional preference, but thought Id throw that out there to look at.
 
Agree with the suggestion to check the tire bead carefully. sometimes it almost sets but not quite and gives a bad ride.
 
Just for info - re tyre direction - I got in touch with Bridgestone after I noticed the dealer had fitted mine the wrong way round, some time back.

Apparently there is no issue with riding them fitted the wrong way round - BUT - the direction is dictated by the way in which the layer of 'rubber' is laid onto the carcass. It is laid in a spiral, like a roll of sticky tape - so it has an 'end'. The direction is determined by which way this end meets the road the most (ie in accelerating and braking).

He said just to keep an eye on the tyre.
Ok, but what am I looking for ?
Small chunks of tyre breaking off in one area of the tyre.

I took it back to the dealer and told them to refit it - but I couldn't tell the difference by riding it.
 
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