YouTuber Says: The EPA is Ruining Motorcycles

the Ferret

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Let's say what the government/scientists tell us is wrong, although anecdotally temperatures do seem to be getting warmer, and storms seem to be coming larger, more frequent, more severe and more destructive. There are things that are scientifically measurable, temperature, air quality, water quality, etc that science keeps track of and has for hundreds of years, and the things being measured tell us that things could be cleaner/better. What is the harm in humans producing less emissions? They don't want to ban our motorcycles, they want to ban pollution.

Here's my rub with the govt mandates. They don't tell us the whole truth about the push toward electric vehicles. Like what harmful effects gathering materials, dispersing refuse and used materials etc are. Down the line are we going to be better off as they are telling us? or worse off? Just be honest with us. Solar has not proven to be the lifeline they said it would, and neither has wind power. They are trying, but the worlds 8 billion people consume a lot of energy and in turn make a lot of pollution. (and a lot of trash)

I'm not saying we should be chicken littles claiming the world is going to end, but neither should we be ostriches with our heads in the sand, believing everything we can't see, is perfectly alright.
 

Andrew Shadow

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They don't tell us the whole truth about the push toward electric vehicles.
Solar has not proven to be the lifeline they said it would, and neither has wind power.
I agree with you, less pollution can only be good for everyone. I also agree with you that there are to many lies, half-truths, and misleading claims being made that robs these activists of their credibility. This is unfortunate because many of the ideas are worth pursuing and might be feasible large-scale, but once people no longer trust what they are being told the hill that has to be climbed to convince the masses becomes much bigger.

I can't recall the figures but I saw a report by some engineering group that determined that in order to produce the same amount of electricity that the US currently uses by wind and solar, something ridiculous like 80% of the land mass of the lower 48 would need to be covered with solar farms and wind turbines. The report concluded by asking, where are the people going to live?

I saw another study that examined green communities where the design is to have the electricity for the community generated by solar and/or wind. The proponents claim that once the infrastructure is in place it is actually cheaper to produce electricity by solar/wind than the current traditional methods of generating electricity, and use this as a selling point. The authors of the study were stunned to find out that most, if not all, of these communities still had the traditional electricity infrastructure in place because no one is going to tolerate not having electricity when there is no wind or sun, not to mention the dangers that can cause for hospitals, emergency services, etc.. To deal with that the traditional electricity grid that we have now is still in place to make sure that power is always available regardless of what the wind and sun are doing, so in effect there are now two electrical systems as opposed to one like we currently have. What the study found astounding was that the proponents of these communities did not include the cost of that traditional electricity infrastructure in the numbers that they used to show that wind and solar was cheaper. I guess the electricity fairies installed the traditional back-up grid free-of-charge.
 
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Study I want to see is how Canada manages to deliver electricity for only 20-25% of what it costs in U.S. Might show something about infrastructure of generating and delivery systems.
 
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Study I want to see is how Canada manages to deliver electricity for only 20-25% of what it costs in U.S. Might show something about infrastructure of generating and delivery systems.
Looks like it depends where in CA and US do you live.

Houston average is about 20 CAD/kWh.

For Canada:

1713731946939.png
 
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Good information.
All of that inspecting and paperwork has contributed to a LOT of government jobs in the USA.
Ever stop to consider how much "environmental protection" has actually been realized, in exchange for all of this cost and man-hours?
I submit it's not, in all its accumulation, even a fraction of what would be required to even move the needle on the positively-protective scale.
Yet it continues, and it grows with every spending bill passed in DC.
What is gained?
And what is lost?
Ryan is frequently a target of criticism, but the real criticism needs to be directed elsewhere in my never-to-be-humble opinion.
A couple points on this.

I'm from eastern Ohio. River fires were a common occurrence until the Environmental Protection Act was passed under Nixon. The problem was that companies weren't allowed to dump reactive chemicals directly into the river, but there was no structure by which they were held to account for it, no organization to investigate where the chemicals were coming from, no body with the authority to levy fines against companies that were doing it.

So if the "legal" way was treating chemical waste to neutral and disposing of it in lined basins costing a lot of capital, and the "illegal" way didn't cost anything and there was nobody allowed to fine you, then you'd do the latter. And so the river caught fire. Over and over and over. Fish were unsafe to consume, both from the Cuyahoga and from Lake Erie. Cancer rates along the rivers were tens of times higher than five miles inland.

The Cuyahoga hasn't caught fire since the 1970s. The fish are safe to eat. Cancer rates for communities along the rivers are down to within a margin of error from general background. And the Cuyahoga National Park is the most bio-diverse region in the Lake Erie watershed.

Without the EPA we still have leaded gasoline. Even as it was, that got pushback from Congress and oil companies through 1996. In 1978, Congress banned lead-based paint production and use, but the EPA is the only agency tasked with enforcement.

More recently, the bans on CFCs and HCFCs have come from international treaties and congressional directive, but the research leading to that has been funded by the EPA, and the enforcement (as well as regulatory structure for the phase-outs) has been from the EPA.

And it reflects in actual numbers. Since 1999, the rate of cancer diagnosis in the US is down 9%. Since 1989, it's down about 23%. That might not seem like a lot, but that means for the past 35 years, there have been about 250,000 fewer cases of cancer per year than the steady state it had been from about 1920 to 1970. The only direct difference in that time has been environmental regulation. This isn't mortality rate; it's diagnosis.

But let's say that there's a factor there being missed. That only 125,000 of those per year can be attributed to companies not dumping sludge in public waterways and not scrubbing coal burnoff and whatnot.

Tally the average cost of cancer treatment today, per the AARP, at $150,000 per patient, against the 4,375,000 people that didn't get cancer, and the savings of the EPA, adjusted for inflation, is $656 billion. Well, the EPA's budget has grown versus inflation, which means we can take the highest budget they've had, 2024 at $9.5 billion, multiply it over their lifetime, and have the highest estimate for what their inflation-adjusted budget it, and it's only $432 billion in total inflation-adjusted costs over 48 years.

That's the rub.

That if we only look at the rate of cancer fall-off, if we ignore asthma and neurodevelopmental difficulties brought on by lead and dioxin, if we ignore ozone depletion because of the banning of CFCs, and we say the EPA was about 20% more costly than it actually is and take away half of the reduced cancer diagnoses for arbitrary reasons and only actually start tracking the cancer rate falls about 20 years after the EPA was founded because we assume cancer rates don't fall immediately - if we give every possible statistical benefit of the doubt to the idea the EPA is wasteful and not as beneficial as they tout...

They've still saved hundreds of billion of dollars in reducing environmentally-caused cancers.

No consideration of other illnesses. No consideration of impact on farms and fisheries. They still showcase their worth directly.

My kid can play and splash around in the Ohio or the Cuyahoga or the Scioto or the Olentangy without getting lesions the next day. My parents certainly didn't get that luxury.
 
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Personally, I think that scenario is a stretch.

Maybe if they were coming down on just motorcycles, but they're not. They are coming down on all ice and diesel vehicles and equipment.

Some company that was re-flashing diesel trucks got caught and fined like a million dollars.

Volkswagon got fined what ended up as being $18 billion over their EPA testing cheating devices on their cars.

2 guys that used to do ECU reflashes on CB 1100's and other motorcycles (Guhl's is one of them) have stopped, due to threat of fines from the EPA, and I 've heard California may be banning re-flashing on all ECUs.

We have to face it, like it or not, the govt is becoming serious about air pollution, and we will not be able to continue to pollute as much as we want, without repercussions

For my money my modern motorcycles are light years ahead of the motorcycles I owned even 20 years ago, while being gentler on the earth, and that's a good thing.
The complaint used to be leveled that manufacturers were moving to direct injection and away from carburetors because of EPA regulations and it would make vehicles worse because DI wasn't tested and proven yet, and couldn't be fixed in a garage with a can of carb cleaner.

I don't think anyone has lamented the loss of carburetors from their cars and bikes in a solid couple decades.
 
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Study I want to see is how Canada manages to deliver electricity for only 20-25% of what it costs in U.S. Might show something about infrastructure of generating and delivery systems.
The big thing with Canada is that there's minimal transmission in general, and you can see this in the northeast US as well. But to that end, it's not a universal experience.

The average electricity rate in Canada is currently $0.192 (CAD) per kWh, or about $0.13 USD.

Nationwide, it's $0.18 per kWh in the US. It's more, but the population is far more spread out from power sources and it requires a lot more infrastructure to maintain that coverage.
 
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The big thing with Canada is that there's minimal transmission in general, and you can see this in the northeast US as well. But to that end, it's not a universal experience.

The average electricity rate in Canada is currently $0.192 (CAD) per kWh, or about $0.13 USD.

Nationwide, it's $0.18 per kWh in the US. It's more, but the population is far more spread out from power sources and it requires a lot more infrastructure to maintain that coverage.
Yeah, sparse populations in U.S. mid-west should have higher costs per person due to needing more wiring distances to each household. High density population areas should have lower transmission and distribution costs.

Reality is opposite with monopolies. It’s also a corporate culture and greed thing.They are going by “What’s the highest we can charge that people are willing to pay.” In SF Bay Area with afluent dot.comers, costs are amongst highest in nation. I was paying $0.30-0.32 kwHr per month after combining tier 1-3 costs.

In Phoenix, it started at 0.16/kwHr. But after adding Tesla charging, it’s bumped me up to next level for overall cost of 0.24/kwHr. SRP‘s nuclear power-plant is just 1.5 hours away. At least they aren’t as corrupt as PG&E in CA.
 
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STFlips

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The big thing with Canada is that there's minimal transmission in general, and you can see this in the northeast US as well. But to that end, it's not a universal experience.
Hmm, minimal transmission distances eh? The country is over 7,500 km wide. Cheapest power is in Quebec, as they make the most from hydro dams. Also, Ontario rates are subsidized for a lot of consumers.
 
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It’s also a corporate culture and greed thing. Sparse populations in mid-west should have higher costs per person due to needing more wiring distances to each household. High density population areas should have lower transmission and distribution costs.

The reality is opposite. They are going by “What’s the highest we can charge that people are willing to pay.” In SF Bay Area with afluent dot.comers, costs are amongst highest in nation. I was paying $0.30-0.32 kwHr per month after combining tier 1-3 costs.

In Phoenix, it started at 0.16/kwHr. But after adding Tesla charging, it’s bumped me up to next level for overall cost of 0.24/kwHr. SRP‘s nuclear power-plant is just 1.5 hours away. At least they aren’t as corrupt as PG&E in CA.
Not all of the Midwest is cheap, and I think there's a misunderstanding as to transmission distances.

100 miles is a LOT of high voltage transmission line. 90% of Ohioans live within 20 miles of their production site. For the 10% that don't, places like Saint Clairsville and Peebles, it pushes toward $0.30/kWh. But the majority of people in the "sparsely populated" Midwest don't live outside of cities, and those that do are still generally close to power plants.

Southwestern states have a different experience, in that they're oftentimes importing power from hundreds of miles out.
 
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Hmm, minimal transmission distances eh? The country is over 7,500 km wide. Cheapest power is in Quebec, as they make the most from hydro dams. Also, Ontario rates are subsidized for a lot of consumers.
Ontario is hundreds of miles wide. 96% of the population lives in a strip 70 miles wide and within 10 miles of the US border. Much of their electricity is produced from the dam on the Niagara, with a lot of wind and solar complementing it.

Subsidies on electricity don't impact the average electric rate per unit.
 
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The complaint used to be leveled that manufacturers were moving to direct injection and away from carburetors because of EPA regulations and it would make vehicles worse because DI wasn't tested and proven yet, and couldn't be fixed in a garage with a can of carb cleaner.

I don't think anyone has lamented the loss of carburetors from their cars and bikes in a solid couple decades.
I really think EPA’s done good job in past couple decades cleaning up emissions. I just think they’ve gone overboard recently. It has
nothing to do with noise or emissions any more. I suspect it has to do with next generation of power-generation.

Similar to how oil, tyre and trucking companies colluded 100-yrs ago destroy railroads, we are on cusp of new extreme power generation unlike anything imaginable. Those who control this technology want to ensure we’ll be completely dependent on them before switching away from oil.
 

STFlips

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25% of Ontario power is from Niagara, 56% is nuclear, 9% solar and wind. Quebec has 34,000 km of transmission lines from James Bay and Labrador serving most of eastern Canada and lots of north eastern US.
 

Andrew Shadow

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Quebec has 34,000 km of transmission lines from James Bay and Labrador serving most of eastern Canada and lots of north eastern US.
The overwhelming majority of the electricity produced in Quebec is not produced any where near the majority of the population who consumes it. Despite those very long transmission distances, on my most recent electricity bill the average rate for the past 60 days, including all taxes and charges, was 6 cents CAD per Kwh, 4 cents USD.
 
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