Thinking about the Aptera sEV

[rjs987]

Since this vehicle is an autocycle... 3 wheeled motorcycle class... vehicle it should be fine to post about it here.

I've been interested in the Aptera sEV since it was first envisioned back in 2005-2006. The same thing happened to the company as happened to Corbin with the Sparrow EV many years earlier. That being that the founders hired business managers to handle the business end of things who then kicked out the founders and ran the companies into the ground resulting in failure. The Elio is another startup that failed but due to that founder being not quite up to technical or business qualified to build and run such a company. I kinda liked that concept but never expected it to go beyond the dream state.

The Aptera concept is good. The first iteration of the concept was limited being a hybrid rather than a full EV. China bought the rights and tried to create something called the Zaptera but that fizzled out before even getting out of concept. The original founders restarted their efforts from scratch in 2019 and hopefully have learned from their earlier mistake of handing over business to greedy bean counters who have no investment in the actual concept. And this time, with improvements in solar panel tech and battery tech, it is nearing production with solar panels that can actually be something beneficial to the vehicle.

I've been watching the development of the current vehicle closely for a little while now, again, and decided that with the direction and current stage of the vehicle I'd put my hat in the ring with a reservation for one. They claim 48+K reservations so I'm near the end of that line. With the news that is coming from Aptera Motors and from other EV sources this Aptera looks like it just might make it to production. They recently concluded validation testing on the performance of the production spec vehicle with all the hardware and software and design that is intended to be in the final product and the testing shows (as much as track testing can show) actual performance is within a few percent of intended and advertised specs. I think they just might make it to production before the end of this year as they claim. Maybe even late summer. High volume production tooling is in place for most of the vehicle already. That tooling is not cheap and speaks of a dedication to meet their current planned deployment of sales to customers. Only some interior panels are still 3-D printed and waiting for validation of fit and finish before high volume tooling is set up for them.

Knowing that initial production will start out slower, and production numbers will gradually grow over several years as is common for any startup I am thinking that those who reserve now will likely have to wait for 3-4 years to get one. And that would be if all goes as planned. What surprises me is that when I put in my reservation they indicated an ETA sometime in 2026! That's quick. Thinking about it I am sure that is due to my reservation being for the launch edition for all features (400 mile range battery, silver body, codex interior, all solar panels (no clear hatch), and no extra features). I even changed a few features in my reservation and found I could add OpenPilot (for extra cost) without changing the ETA. But selecting a different exterior color or interior color theme or choosing a clear tailgate does push ETA out to "TBD" so I left it as the launch edition. I even left off the OpenPilot option since Apple Carplay and Android Auto will be stock features. There are likely a LOT of reservations for longer range or one of the other body colors and/or interior color themes, and a clear hatch window (though I doubt many opt for that since that reduces the solar benefit). So the first 20+K units will likely be the launch edition which should all be delivered by end of 2026 IF ALL GOES AS PLANNED.

I have no illusions that everything will go as planned... if at all. At least the reservation fee is small and is held in escrow so totally refundable should it all fall apart or I change my mind. I also have no illusions about the claim for UP TO 40 miles per day just from solar without plugging in. I live in central Iowa. The sun is not always out and when it is it's lower in the sky than in southern CA, AZ or any other south western state. I have no range anxiety with driving any good EV on a road trip. Current tech in battery and charging speed as well as the current numbers of charging stations spread out all over handles that for me. Stopping for gas every few hundred miles with an ICE vehicle means I have to stand there while the tank fills up for 5-10 mins... assuming there is no line like we sometimes have around here which extends that time to maybe 15-20 mins. The Aptera can use Tesla Superchargers and I can plug in and let it charge while I go grab a relaxing lunch or dinner and have a full charge when I'm done eating. My son owns a Tesla model Y and last summer drove his family in that EV to our family vacation from his home in Lafayette to Austin stopping once for maybe 20 mins to top off the charge, a 400 mile trip. No problem. The Aptera is planned to go 400 miles with a battery pack less than half the size of a Tesla for the same range... meaning it will recharge a lot faster using the same charging stations. They also plan to have other range models (battery pack sizes) for 250 miles, 600 miles, 1000 miles in addition to the initial 400 miles.

I was thinking anyway that someday as I get older I'd be interested in a 3 wheeled vehicle of some kind. Especially when it gets too difficult to ride on 2 wheels. This would be my 3 wheeled motorcycle. If it happens, and I know there is a good possibility that it won't, I'd keep my AK and also have the Aptera. I've often told my wife we really don't need 2 cars but she insists on being paranoid of one car out with one of us and then for some reason needing to go someplace in inclement weather. The Aptera would be a great substitute for a second car since it is enclosed and has been shown to run as well as a car in bad weather. We also only go beyond the local area a few times, maybe every other month if that. So one ICE vehicle and one EV would be ideal for us. I know it is a really offbeat, strange looking vehicle. But maybe that's part of what draws me in.

https://aptera.us/vehicle/

This is a referral link... $30 off a reservation using this link.
https://lz953.isrefer.com/go/preorder/

 

[rjs987]

Oh, also...
Maybe, if my wife LETS me get it, I might even drive it to one or two STOC events.


- she still holds the veto vote.

 

[Erdoc48]

I have a lot of interest in this as well. I had a discounted ‘reservation’ and I paid $70 for that. I have since taken my $70 back. My concern about this is that even if it does go into production, will they sell enough of them to sustain production, or will it be a quick blast of production, slower sales, and then the company fails? Look at Fisker- they made an SUV (the ‘Ocean’) and due to pricing most likely and the fact that the original ‘Karma’ failed, I suspect a lot of people didn’t trust the company. They have since failed. The issue with the Aptera is the time it’s taking to getting it to production, and in that case, a lot of interested people begin to lose interest. In general, a 2 seater (I own 2 of them) is less useful to people than a regular car, so will that play a role as well? I do like the idea of solar charging and you don’t really need a level 2 charger since the battery pack is smaller (and by extension the car is supposed to be much more efficient due to its shape), so wall current is fine with this car. Will parts be available and these effectively become a ‘brick’ in the event parts are not available? These are just some of the questions I have. I would like to see them become successful, but I’m not certain it’s going to happen. Lastly, the original buy in for the 25 kW battery was supposed to be $26K, which could be construed as reasonable but I think as of late (and I may be wrong about this), it’s now $33K. If it starts to get near $40K, then people are more than likely going to get a used regular car, hybrid, or SUV, vs a new compact car (like Corolla or Civic), even if not near that $40K price.

By the way, I hope you’re enjoying the Kymco. I really do like that scooter.

 

[rjs987]

I am also thinking of this... the continuing success of the vehicle and company. At least this company is a "right to repair" company and plans to give owners access to any parts and manuals and video instructions for doing any kind of parts replacement or repair... or enable owners to choose the shop to do it for them with all the maintenance support they can give.

The launch edition that I reserved has the 44 kWh battery pack. The current total price for that is set to $40K. The bumped it up in late Dec or early January. If people see this as a second vehicle rather than their only or primary one then I think it will do better. I've always considered the current tech in EVs as keeping them as a second vehicle, with an ICE vehicle as a primary for longer distance and hauling people or things. Though EVs keep getting better and that distinction is beginning to diminish.

I am enjoying my AK 550. Although, I can see myself beginning to "cool" toward riding in cold weather somewhat. Recently I did find that there is a coolant leak somewhere between the radiator and the water pump. Coolant on the hose. I think (hoping) it is just a loose hose clamp at the radiator. When the garage is a little warmer I will be pulling some of the plastic fairing off on the left side to inspect that. There is a good source for many parts at a reasonable price. The lower radiator hose is $8, the seal bearing for the water pump is $15, and clamps are $1.50.
This model of Kymco is somewhat similar to the Aptera as far as hoping it continues to be available in the USA. Kymco has a strong presence overseas though so I'm not especially concerned about it. And it's easy to work on so I can do all maintenance on it myself.

 

[the Ferret]

Good luck with it Robert. Hope it works well for you. Does it have a heater or air conditioning? ( I didn't read all the specs). Wonder what it would be like inside at 30 or 90 degrees? It is a fancy looking thing. 400 miles of range? That would be something. If Zero (or Can AM) could get 400-mile range out of their mc's I would seriously consider one.

I think when I'm done riding, I'll just go with my Camery. It should last me until I'm worm bait.

 

[St-Gerard]

Watched their YouTube video awhile ago and I do hope they make it to production and stay in business, pricing will be the deciding factor for success.

 

[rjs987]

Good luck with it Robert. Hope it works well for you. Does it have a heater or air conditioning? ( I didn't read all the specs). Wonder what it would be like inside at 30 or 90 degrees? It is a fancy looking thing. 400 miles of range? That would be something. If Zero (or Can AM) could get 400-mile range out of their mc's I would seriously consider one.

I think when I'm done riding, I'll just go with my Camery. It should last me until I'm worm bait.

Yep, full HVAC system... heating and cooling. In fact there is separate ventilation for the central display insulated from the cabin heat/cool venting. It can direct air down around the feet as well as from the dash around all 4 sides of the display panel. The battery pack also has its own venting system. I think I read that it also has a low energy system that keeps the cabin reasonable in hot or cold weather even while parked.

I decided many years ago that 400 miles is the average max distance I like to travel on my bike (350-450 maybe). That would go for also traveling solo in any vehicle. That's mostly for mental alertness rather than anything else. When my wife and I were visiting my mom in AZ we'd split the driving and ended up with about 400 miles for each of us. Amarillo was half way at 800 miles from home and the rest of the trip was another almost 800 miles. That worked out well.

The Aptera is always on. There is no off switch but there is a lock switch. When parked it goes into a very low power mode that makes it look like it's off. Let's be honest about that... ALL modern vehicles are always on to some degree. That's how you can unlock doors with a remote and for some with the feature remotely start them. So not much different than is currently normal. With a RFID card rather than a typical remote fob the vehicle actually "boots up" when you approach it so the display is ready to go once you are seated. I imagine that can be changed in settings. The doors and rear hatch open with a "knock-knock" on the panel next to the doors or hatch so no door handle. There is a physical door latch button on the doors inside. A phone app will also be available to use instead of the RFID card. If the knock-knock doesn't work then the phone app can open the doors just like with the newer Tesla phone app.

 

[Al st1100]

Target price of $40,000 plus cost over runs, inflation, then the real price is??? Why reserve when you can wait till they come out.

 

[Al st1100]

Wait a few years till they work all the bugs out. Look at the Rivian, it's new, modern has all the bells and whistles and yet it's one of consumer reports least reliable brands.

• In 2024, Rivian ranked fifth lowest overall in Consumer Reports' annual survey.
  
  
• The survey considered vehicle road test scores, predicted reliability, owner satisfaction, and safety.
  
  
• Some reported issues with Rivian vehicles include:
  
  • Premature pad/rotor wear
    
    
  • Squeaks, rattles, and wind noises
    
    
  • Air and water leaks
    
    
  • • Electric drive failure
      

 

[rjs987]

Target price of $40,000 plus cost over runs, inflation, then the real price is??? Why reserve when you can wait till they come out.

I'd like to enjoy riding in one before I'm 80... OK, before I'm 75. Waiting until after they come out, and have a significant number of reviews from owners, will likely mean I wouldn't be able to get one for another 5 years at least. My oldest son had to wait almost a year to get his Camry hybrid. My younger son waited some time to get his Tesla model Y. The Aptera already has a waiting list at least 2+ years long (MAYBE 1000-5000 units this year if they start as planned, then 10K in 2026, 20K in 2027, ramping up from there... and 48+K reservations so far) and the only reason I can see that my place in line will get me one by the end of 2026 is that I'm one of a few who will take the initial launch edition for colors and range so my number will come up sooner even though I'm near the end of the line. But yes, price at time of receiving it is a big concern.

 

[St-Gerard]

Yeah you don't want to wait 32 years to get the bike or toy you really wanted like me with a ST1100 , two daughters, wife ,could not afford $18,000 at that time.

 

[rjs987]

I'm 70 this year. Waiting until I can just go out and buy it without being on a reservation list means not until I'm at least 75 and maybe even a few years older than that. Vehicles that are not so popular don't need a reservation/waiting list. But those companies are the ones that usually fail after a few years. Not that having a reservation system actually prevents that but I consider being able to run out on a whim and buy a new concept vehicle without waiting is usually a bad sign unless it's not really a new concept or design.

Oh, and about that "taking a long time to get to production" thing... The big auto companies usually take as long or longer to develop a new concept vehicle, gas or electric. They just keep it secret until the very end just before it shows up on the floor. Tesla was in development for 5 years before the first one was sold. The current version of the Aptera is essentially a brand new concept started in 2019. It is only similar in outer appearance to the initial attempt in 2006-2011. It is a totally different vehicle under the skin but the shape is mostly kept due to the extreme aerodynamics.

 

[the Ferret]

Heck, I turn 75 in May and being the old guy that I am, am still leary about all this new hybrid, electric, and CVT trans stuff , which is why I bought my new Toyota gas powered/gear transmission car LAST year lol. I actually pondered a hybrid, but couldn't bring myself to even ponder an EV. In the end I went with tried and true. Heck, I thought buying a DCT trans motorcycle was being pretty bold "for me" 3 years ago.

 

[Erdoc48]

^^ I get this. My cars are older (1993, 2004, and 2012)- the cars are low use so will likely last as long as I want to own them, but at some point we’ll have to replace the wife’s SUV. I want it with an ICE (or maybe a Toyota hybrid) but I really don’t want a full EV. Her SUV has near 130K miles on it- maybe I can push it 200K or beyond. I hope so.

 

[the Ferret]

I have always put over 200k on my Honda cars. My 91 Accord I traded in with 283k on it. We gave my wifes Accord with 200k on it to our oldest grandaughter when my wife retired in 2017. She now has over 300k on it and its on life support but still getting her back and forth to work.

When wife gave her Accord to the grand, she bought a Toyota SUV, and it now has over 100k trouble free miles on it. So when I gave my Honda truck to my daughter last year, I wanted another Honda, either Accord or Civic, but all the new Hondas all have CVTs. So I looked at Toyotas. The Corolla also had a CVT, but the Camry had a gear trans. Apparently the last year for it, as the 2025s Camrys are all hybrids with a cvt. So I bought the 24. Hopefully it will last me until the end, and one of my kids or grands can have it.

 

[rjs987]

We used to have a 2006 Nissan Murano. That had a CVT and it was good. I don't mind a CVT if it is designed well and functions well. Gave that one to my older son but they ran it into the ground... or maybe it was done with life anyway.
We now have a 2017 Subaru Legacy which also has a CVT. I don't like it at all. Very different than the Murano CVT. Takes entirely too long changing from reverse to forward. The Legacy is rated for 30 mpg but the first winter we had it we were getting only 16 mpg. I know cold affect mileage but that is really bad. Now it seems to have settled around 28 mpg. My 2015 Toyota Rav4 is rated for only 22 mpg but is getting 25-26 mpg even in the cold season.
My last two bikes have had a CVT and I'm fine with that. The CVT in my AK is tight enough that I don't notice any lag that is typical of a CVT but rather it feels more like a fixed gear bike like my ST1100 or CTX1300.
One nice thing, to me, about an EV is that they don't usually have more than one gear nor a CVT. My son's Tesla ramps up from a stop to maximum speed smoothly without any shifting. Same with the Aptera. Max HP at zero RPM.

 

[rjs987]

Something I know I'd have to get used to is the camera rear view screen where a center rear view mirror usually is for cars. There are actually TWO cameras pointing to the rear. One on top the rear hatch just above the top center brake light and the other on the rear wheel fin just below the license plate. The lower camera is actually the backup camera that is common on most modern cars. This display shows up in the control display panel when in reverse mode. The upper camera is the rear view camera that shows up in the rear view screen.

I actually saw one in action today while driving back from errands. Came up behind a pickup truck at a stop light and noticed something really strange... I happened to see the rear view "mirror" in the truck. Normally when I look at the rear view mirror of the vehicle in front of me I see the drivers eyes. But this time I saw MY vehicle and parts of those around me. Then I saw the camera mounted near the top of the tail gate. It was a very clear and wide view... even from my location safely behind the truck. It was also a very bright display. I think I recall hearing that such a video rear view camera system can be added as an aftermarket item on any vehicle but have never noticed one until today. I don't know if any car/truck maker adds that system as an option or not.

BTW- On the Aptera the rear view camera is always showing in the rear view screen. But the backup camera can be turned on by a "button" on the control panel at any time so you can view just how close that bonehead behind you is to your tail at a stop light... for example.

Edit: I looked up and found that there are many car makers who do offer the camera rear view system instead of a mirror. Some as an option, and some as factory stock.

 

[rjs987]

This is a nice video highlighting details on the aluminum/steel chassis frame construction. Some mention of the way it is made to handle front collisions. A well made design similar to many standard automotive practices.

 

[rjs987]

I added one of the available features to my reservation. The OpenPilot system. Aptera is implementing OpenPilot as an option for those who want it. OpenPilot is rated better than Tesla's guidance and navigation system that is integrated in their EVs. It provides navigation with turn-by-turn directions, lane position and lane assist control, brake sensing control. It also has some self driving capabilities with driver monitoring to ensure the driver is alert and capable of taking over. The cost is significant but not so much compared to the overall vehicle at $1300. I'll likely reconsider this option later since I can always modify my reservation at any time before delivery. I am hoping that the company is successful in bringing the Aptera to volume production.

I have seen many posts, articles, and videos by critics and trolls and alarmists who like to tear down anything they can just for recognition. But also everything I see from them ignores the entire picture of what is happening. Just like those who say Tesla stock is crashing. They ignore the fact that Tesla stock is now exactly where it should be based on their stock trend over the last 5+ years. There was a big boost from November through February and then a correction after that to bring it back down to anticipated levels. Same with Tesla sales of certain models. There has always been a drop in sales of a model when a new design of that model is about to be released, and then a major boost in sales of the new model when it comes out. This is all totally normal. But the alarmists ignore all that and only take note of the slump without considering history or the reason why. Same is happening with Aptera Motors. All startups stay in the red for a long time. One thing different about Aptera and other mainstream auto makers is that Aptera doesn't keep development secret and hidden until the validation testing is complete like those others do. They've been open about the entire development process. Those big name auto makers would finally let slip a new model or new design when they are past where Aptera is today. It does help that they also have very deep pockets to easily absorb big losses, and often keep those losses secret as well, until they build up sales of a new vehicle. So I'm not yet worried about Aptera. It all depends if they are able to stick with it going forward.

 

[Weaselinsuit]

Something I know I'd have to get used to is the camera rear view screen where a center rear view mirror usually is for cars. There are actually TWO cameras pointing to the rear. One on top the rear hatch just above the top center brake light and the other on the rear wheel fin just below the license plate. The lower camera is actually the backup camera that is common on most modern cars. This display shows up in the control display panel when in reverse mode. The upper camera is the rear view camera that shows up in the rear view screen.

I actually saw one in action today while driving back from errands. Came up behind a pickup truck at a stop light and noticed something really strange... I happened to see the rear view "mirror" in the truck. Normally when I look at the rear view mirror of the vehicle in front of me I see the drivers eyes. But this time I saw MY vehicle and parts of those around me. Then I saw the camera mounted near the top of the tail gate. It was a very clear and wide view... even from my location safely behind the truck. It was also a very bright display. I think I recall hearing that such a video rear view camera system can be added as an aftermarket item on any vehicle but have never noticed one until today. I don't know if any car/truck maker adds that system as an option or not.

BTW- On the Aptera the rear view camera is always showing in the rear view screen. But the backup camera can be turned on by a "button" on the control panel at any time so you can view just how close that bonehead behind you is to your tail at a stop light... for example.

Edit: I looked up and found that there are many car makers who do offer the camera rear view system instead of a mirror. Some as an option, and some as factory stock.

My 2012 F-150 came from the factory with the backup camera screen in the rear view mirror. I actually preferred it there to a screen in the dash.

I think it looks cool as heck and I bet it would be a blast to drive. Any sense of the crash worthiness of the Aptera? It's a bit different here in BC than it was when I lived in Alberta where everyone had a pick up and an F-150 was a starter truck but there's still enough SUV's etc here that I would want pretty decent crumple zones etc.