There Will Be a 2014 ST1300

[JZH]

This is the reason I was asking about the VIN. They are being passed of as 2014 models.

AFAIK, the VIN is ordinarily stamped into the frame on the production line, so it (the 10th character) reflects the year the bike was produced. There may be ways in which the model year can be changed prior to the vehicle's sale, but the frames may also be permanently associated with a particular model year.

It would be fairly easy to change the VIN plate with another...



But it would be a lot harder to change this:



In order to market a bike as a "2014" model, the bike would have to have been manufactured for that model year, wouldn't it?

Ciao,

 

[rjs987]

AFAIK, the VIN is ordinarily stamped into the frame on the production line, so it (the 10th character) reflects the year the bike was produced. There may be ways in which the model year can be changed prior to the vehicle's sale, but the frames may also be permanently associated with a particular model year.

It would be fairly easy to change the VIN plate with another...



But it would be a lot harder to change this:



In order to market a bike as a "2014" model, the bike would have to have been manufactured for that model year, wouldn't it?

Ciao,

Yes.
Just look at your own example. While a 2014 model bike may be actually manufactured in 2013 the VIN should still reflect the "model year" of that bike. Looking at your own example you see a 2006 model bike with the VIN indicating a 2006 model (10th character) but on the VIN plate at the top the date of manufacture is "12/05."

 

[drrod]

In order to market a bike as a "2014" model, the bike would have to have been manufactured for that model year, wouldn't it?

Is there laws that require this? Just curious. As I stated in another thread, Honda had the same problem with their outboard motors. ie. lots of left over inventory. They simply instructed the dealers to refer to them as the "current" model. IIRC this went on for 2-3 years.
If I get a minute, I will go down to the local Honda dealer and see what it says on the plate &/or frame. They had a black one at the MC show a couple of weeks ago and had it labelled as a 2014 model.

Rod

 

[nhdiesel]

There is no law requiring when the vehicle was assembled/built, only that the components meet the standards for the model year it is being sold as. It's extremely common for a vehicle to have been made the previous year and sold as the next year's offering. Heck, most vehicles start being sold before the "model year" even arrives- 2014 model year vehicles typically start in August or September. Kind of hard to be built in 2014 then sold in Nov 3013, no? There are times in history when duds- unsold models- were rebadged as a different model year. The Pontiac Aztec is a prime example. Huge flop, lots of vehicles left sitting at the factory, and even dealerships- many were rebadged as different model year to "keep them fresh".

As for the price reduction/age thing, of course nobody sells at MSRP unless it is a highly sought after model. But while Honda is reducing the prices (that is up to the dealer, by the way) so is Yamaha, Kawasaki, Triumph, etc. So while the Honda dealer is trying to push the 2012 ST1300 leftover in his showroom for $15 or $16k, the Yamaha dealer is letting the new, fresh FJR go for under $15k. Kind of a no-brainer if I was buying! You still might be able to find a brand new ST even cheaper though, because having one sit on the floor costs the dealer money. Many are willing to dump the unpopular bikes to safe money on inventory, as well as make room for the shiny new models that are out- and actually sell, making them money. When I was shopping for my used '06 in spring of '11 I had the first two dealers with leftover '10s in inventory offer them to me for well under $11k, and that was without any haggling- just asking if they had them in stock. One was nearly begging me to take it off his hands and was trying to offer up free riding gear, free winter storage, etc. I was tempted, but didn't want to deal with new vehicle warranties since I was going to farkle it anyway, and I knew the money I saved on the identical '06 would be better spent on accessories or riding.

 

[JZH]

Is there laws that require this? Just curious. As I stated in another thread, Honda had the same problem with their outboard motors. ie. lots of left over inventory. They simply instructed the dealers to refer to them as the "current" model. IIRC this went on for 2-3 years.
If I get a minute, I will go down to the local Honda dealer and see what it says on the plate &/or frame. They had a black one at the MC show a couple of weeks ago and had it labelled as a 2014 model.

You used to be able to find online the letters American Honda had sent to the US DOT/NHTSA each year, informing the government of the meaning of the Vehicle Descriptor Code section of the VIN for each model. The online database was surprisingly disorganised and incomplete, actually, but I understand that this disclosure is part of the federal regulations relating the the VIN, so each manufacturer is obliged to submit this information to the DOT each year. I haven't looked into this issue specifically, but I did find and save several of these letters once I had found them. Here is what the one from March 3, 2005 said:

Administrator
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
400 Seventh Street, S.W.
Washington, D.C. 20590

ATTENTION: VIN COORDINATOR

Dear Sir:

In accordance with general agency regulation, 49 CFR 565, we are enclosing the information specified in Section 565.5 of the regulation that is applicable for the following 2005 model year Honda motorcycles:

ST1300, ST1300A, ST1300P, CB900F, CBR600RR

Please contact me at (310) 783-3419 if you have any questions.

Yours truly,

AMERICAN HONDA MOTOR CO., INC.

[signed]

Michael V. Tyrrell
Administrator - Certification
Certification Department

[attached was a chart showing the following information for each of the 2005 model year vehicles]

Vehicle code Line (Model) Type of Motorcycle Fuel Engine type No. of Cylinder Displacements (cc) Brake horse Power VIN Type

SC510 ST1300 MC Gasoline 4 1261 125 JH2SC510*5M300001 A&AC

[etc.]

If a manufacturer were to use the same VIN "model year identifier" in multiple years (as they would be doing if they had already manufactured and stamped the bikes' frames), the VIN would no longer contain accurate information about the model year, so they would probably be in violation of Regulation 565.5. There may be a way for them to do this legally, however. "Model Year" is defined in the regulation as: "the year used to designate a discrete vehicle model, irrespective of the calendar year in which the vehicle was actually produced, so long as the actual period is less than two calendar years."

Ciao,

 

[ST13Fred]

With tax, tag and title a 2014 ST13A MSRP is $20K+US, while I paid $12,300 OTD for the same unchanged bike, 10 years ago.......do the math.
As good as the ST is, I cannot imagine Honda is selling ANY of these bikes at near that price.

Kawasaki built the Concours for 20 years (1986-2006), virtually unchanged, but held the price point in the $7K-$8K range, nearly throughout.
Maybe Honda is planning to break the Concours run streak.......we're going to see a 2023 ST1300 MSRP $34,230 US.

 

[Blrfl]

With tax, tag and title a 2014 ST13A MSRP is $20K+US, while I paid $12,300 OTD for the same unchanged bike, 10 years ago.......do the math.

I end up saying this every time this comes up, but... If you factor in the exchange rates and look at it in Honda's native currency, you'll find they're selling STs for something like 25% less than it did a decade ago. You're paying more because your local currency is weak.

The situation was different when the Conk was on the market, and Kawasaki could keep the price in dollars the same and scoop up more Yen. Why didn't the price on that bike drop when the Yen was weak?

--Mark

 

[ST Gui]

I end up saying this every time this comes up, but... If you factor in the exchange rates and look at it in Honda's native currency, you'll find they're selling STs for something like 25% less than it did a decade ago. You're paying more because your local currency is weak.

It should be a sticky.

 

[bmcdonau]

Help me figure this out. Today 100 yen = 96 cents. 10 years ago 100 yen = 89 cents.

Ten years ago the list price of a ST-1300 was $13,499 or 1,516,741.57 yen.

Today the list price of the ST-1300 is $18,230 or 1,898,958.33 yen.

I ran the price of the 2004 ST-1300 against an inflation calculator and it said in 2014 an ST-1300 should cost 16,750.89 without regard for the exchange rate a difference of $1,479.11 in the actual list price.

The exchange rate is about 7 percent worse, and the price is about 9 percent higher.

How does this compute to 25 percent less for a 2014 vs a 2004?

 

[Bug Dr.]

Help me figure this out. Today 100 yen = 96 cents. 10 years ago 100 yen = 89 cents.

Ten years ago the list price of a ST-1300 was $13,499 or 1,516,741.57 yen.

Today the list price of the ST-1300 is $18,230 or 1,898,958.33 yen.

I ran the price of the 2004 ST-1300 against an inflation calculator and it said in 2014 an ST-1300 should cost 16,750.89 without regard for the exchange rate a difference of $1,479.11 in the actual list price.

The exchange rate is about 7 percent worse, and the price is about 9 percent higher.

How does this compute to 25 percent less for a 2014 vs a 2004?

Exactly! Maybe this should be a sticky.
Mike

 

[Blrfl]

Help me figure this out.

I dug out the post where I came up with the 25% figure. That was the fall of 2011, when the 2012 ST was priced and dollars were still in the tank and buying ?77 each. That figure is still relevant; I'll explain why in a minute.

I ran the price of the 2004 ST-1300 against an inflation calculator...

U.S. inflation has no bearing on what it costs to build a motorcycle in Japan. If the ST was built here and funded with dollars, that figure would mean something. You could come up with a rough U.S. price by adjusting the 2004 price in yen using the Japanese inflation rate (and they have had some in the last decade) and then convert the result to dollars using the current exchange rate.

The exchange rate is about 7 percent worse, and the price is about 9 percent higher.

It is now, but the MSRP on the bikes for sale in dealerships wasn't set recently and doesn't fluctuate with the exchange rate. Let's look at STs in the U.S. for the last few years:

2014. No such animal, at least not for the general public. They are selling police models, but I have no idea how those are priced or how they compare to earlier years.

2013. I can't find any evidence that these were sold in the U.S.. Canada got them, but their pricing is different from ours even with the USD/CAD exchange rate factored in. If there was an American 2013, it would have been priced in the fall of 2012, when the exchange rate was ?78 to the dollar, only marginally better than it was a year earlier.

2012. This is the last year shown on Honda's web site and the last one sold here. That's what you're likely to find warehoused in crates and available from dealers, if any are willing to devote inventory to them. Those bikes were priced in late 2011 and imported and put on American Honda's books during 2012, when the exchange rate still wasn't very good. That's the model I described in my post, and unless I got the math wrong (always a possibility), is why I think the 25% figure is still relevant. American Honda has a lot of expensive STs on its hands that it wants to sell for as much as it can. I suppose at some point they'll start taking a loss on them to get them out of inventory.

--Mark

 

[bmcdonau]

Mark,

You're saying Honda's costs are fixed when a bike is manufactured and Honda had the misfortune to manufacture these STs at a time when the exchange rate was especially unfavorable to the US. Fair enough, but I think the current MSRP of $18,230 includes at least a portion of that 25% premium for an unfavorable exchange rate in 2011/2012.

Here are the exchange rates for the last nine years on March 18.

2006 .0086
2007 .0085
2008 .0101
2009 .0102
2010 .0110
2011 .0123
2012 .0119
2013 .0105
2014 .0098


I found a web site that will calculate inflation based on the inflation rate in Japan over the same time period.

The MSRP of an ST in 2004 is $13,499 or 1,516,741.57 yen.

1,516,741.57 JPY in 2004 is 1,518,313.6 JPY in 2014.
The list price of an ST-1300 in 2014 is $18,230 or 1,898,958.33 yen.

No matter which currency you use the 2014 MSRP of an ST-1300 is higher than you'd expect given inflation over the ten year period. The exchange rate must account for some of that difference.

 

[BakerBoy]

Agreed bmc, the ST's Msrp doesn't compute based on inflation and exchange rates ... Especially for such an 'old' model where tooling has no doubt long been depreciated to zero. The few honda does sell must have very good margin.

 

[bmcdonau]

Agreed bmc, the ST's Msrp doesn't compute based on inflation and exchange rates ... Especially for such an 'old' model where tooling has no doubt long been depreciated to zero. The few honda does sell must have very good margin.

If they are not going to make any more you'd think they'd just blow them out the door cheap like they did with the last gen VFR. They certainly aren't going up in value every year. I wonder if they have so many left they can't do that.

 

[Appalachian]

This thread, and the several others like it, need a GIANT animated smily 'sticking a fork in it'... move on fella's, life's way too short!