switching from bias to radial tires

Rhubarbray

Rhubarbray

Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
180
Age
57
Location
Ottawa, ON
Bike
'04 ST1300,
Or the other way! I have been reading this forum and I did find the article on available tires. I have a new-to-me 2001 ST1100 non-ABS and it has radial tires on it. When I did a bit of digging it seems it's supposed to have bias tires.
Has anyone switched from one type to the other and what did you notice about the handling, tire life, etc?
If I wanted to switch back it seems the only option I can find in the OEM sizes is the old stalwart Metzeler ME33/ ME55.
What are the current options for radial tires? Would prefer to keep same manufacturer front and rear. I've been looking at that option and there's not many choices either.
 
its more up to the tires themselves if you notice any of the differences you mentioned, there's no magical set of tires, everyone likes something different. Feel free to mix radial and bias, we've all done it many times. One thing to consider though, some tire shops won't mix them, so if you want to do that bring the wheel in off of the bike and just tell them that the other tire is the same construction so they don't refuse to mount the new tire.
 
If you go onto a tyre manufacturers website and enter the bike details it will throw up the available and recommended tyres. All tyre types are OK, but the latest recommendations will probably all be radials.
It's just your choice and depth of pockets that will probably influence your decision.
Good luck,
Upt.
 
The ST1100 probably came with bias tires recommended originally because there were not much selection of radials available 30+ years ago. Manufactures tend to be reluctant to "update" recommendations on old models due to the costs of making that change.
Tire technology has come a long way in that time.
 
The only difference I noticed when I went to radials was you tended to feel the road or the turn more. That is subjective I’m sure. Tire longevity is the same. The different compounds on the radial wore at different rates (middle and sides) so you end up with some noise when you lean into a turn.
I’ve run different brands on front and rear and radial front and bias rear and didn’t seem to make any difference. I am running Dunlop Roadsmart 3 now and am very happy with them. Whatever you do make sure you keep them inflated properly as the behaviour changes with under inflated tires.
 
In September of 1987, I bought my first Honda Sabre (85- VF700S). I put 74K miles on it until I sold it in 1992. I had bias tires on it and I rode Angeles Crest and Forest Hwys alot.
Later in 1993, I bought a '83 V45 Sabre, with bias tires and put 24K miles on it, but no mountain riding.

In 1999, I bought a '85 V45 Sabre (from Canada) with about 8K when I bought it, and it came with bias tires.

I started group riding with the SabMag group in SoCal. Our first ride (Oct 1999) was up US395 and we did some mountain riding. There were about 12 riders and I always found myself towards the back of the pack, because I didn't feel comfortable with those tires. After that ride, I changed over to radials. What a difference they made! Our next ride was the following October, and I found myself almost running over everyone else, so I kept passing the slower riders, until I came up to the two leading the ride. I found I still had to back off at times.

A couple of years later, my brother and I were at the SabMag Spring Fling in the foothills of the Old Gold country. Dave was riding the '83 V45 Sabre I had sold him, and I was on my Canadian V45 Sabre. So the two bikes were well matched (as were my brothers and my mountain riding skills. I kept telling my brother that the radials made a big difference, and the only way I could get him to believe me was for us to trade bikes. Dave was sold after that, so he had radials put on his bike.

A year or so later we both switched to '84 V65 Sabres and both put radials on them.

The radials improved the handling of those bikes so much. So yes, I would put radials on it!

When the bike feels like it will hold, I love to lean them! ;)

_I7G5563.jpg
 
I had only radials on my ST, but before that, I had a T3 Moto Guzzi. Yes, that bike is old technology, but with bias tires it wobbled all over the place on milled roads. Riding back from a Canadian rally, I rode along the Niagara River between the falls and Buffalo (I don't remember the route or name of the expressway). The road was concrete and I remember seeing a faint groove in the road, as if a white line had been removed by milling. The bike wanted to follow that groove, and it drove me crazy until the roadway changed and the 'slot' disappeared. Before I sold the bike I put radials on it, and the handling improved significantly. No more wobble on milled roads and no tendency to follow grooves in the road. I also remember a corresponding handling improvement years ago when I went from bias to radials on my cars.

I won't dispute the guys here who say the handling is the same regardless of the tire construction (I have no experience w/ bias tires on my ST), but I'll never go back to bias construction unless there is no other option.
 
The only experience I’ve had with bias tires is the original set- my brother recommended radials back in the day and that’s all I’ve used since (and the OEM rear size can be difficult to find which is 160/70/17 and most use the 170/60/17 size, myself included). The 170/60/17 size is pretty easy to obtain. Interestingly, the scooter tires for the Silverwing seem to only come as bias ply tires (not sure why, unless it’s cheaper to make bias tires for scooters).
 
SupraSabre said:
In September of 1987, I bought my first Honda Sabre (85- VF700S). I put 74K miles on it until I sold it in 1992. I had bias tires on it and I rode Angeles Crest and Forest Hwys alot.
Later in 1993, I bought a '83 V45 Sabre, with bias tires and put 24K miles on it, but no mountain riding.

In 1999, I bought a '85 V45 Sabre (from Canada) with about 8K when I bought it, and it came with bias tires.

I started group riding with the SabMag group in SoCal. Our first ride (Oct 1999) was up US395 and we did some mountain riding. There were about 12 riders and I always found myself towards the back of the pack, because I didn't feel comfortable with those tires. After that ride, I changed over to radials. What a difference they made! Our next ride was the following October, and I found myself almost running over everyone else, so I kept passing the slower riders, until I came up to the two leading the ride. I found I still had to back off at times.

A couple of years later, my brother and I were at the SabMag Spring Fling in the foothills of the Old Gold country. Dave was riding the '83 V45 Sabre I had sold him, and I was on my Canadian V45 Sabre. So the two bikes were well matched (as were my brothers and my mountain riding skills. I kept telling my brother that the radials made a big difference, and the only way I could get him to believe me was for us to trade bikes. Dave was sold after that, so he had radials put on his bike.

A year or so later we both switched to '84 V65 Sabres and both put radials on them.

The radials improved the handling of those bikes so much. So yes, I would put radials on it!

When the bike feels like it will hold, I love to lean them! ;)

_I7G5563.jpg
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The SabMag group!! I haven't thought of them in years! I was one of the original contributors and think I still have the first ( only? ) newsletter they put out. Was put together by a guy in New York, name escapes me right now. I had a '84 V65 Sabre. I switched from bias to try the Dunlop D205 on that bike. Absolute night and day difference. Loved them. When you could no longer get the Dunlops, I decided to try the Avon Azaros, remember them? 100km, pulled them off, hated them. The bike weaved in a straight line at 100km/h and the front tucked on me twice in a cloverleaf on ramp turn. Tires came off the next day.
 
The ABSII ST1100s came with radial tires (of course the front is a 120 vs a 110).
I've run all sorts of combinations of radials and bias tires.
Currently I'm running a BT032GT radial on the fronts and a BT020 bias on the rears.
Don't tell the bike and it will never know the difference .... ;)
BTW, you can a 120 on a 110 rim and have no issues.
Or run a 120 rim on the front of a standard - BTDTGTTS.
IMHO, the radials handle better, the bias get better mileage.
Since I think most of the handling is in the front, that's why I put a radial on the front.
FWIW, over 1/2 million miles between 4 ST1100s this way. :biggrin:
 
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My 1996 ST1100 came with Bias Bridgestone Exedras. There were no radial tyres from Bridgestone that fitted the standard model at the time. Just checked my records - Feb 2002 I fitted Exedras 547/548. I had noted that Radials were available for the ABS model, but not for the standard. I was able to fit BT020 radials in October 2002.
I liked them better - but I was getting 7000 miles out of the rear on the Exedras. I only every get 5000 out of the radials.

And - just a point of interest. When I first got the ST1100 in Sept 2000, it was my first motorcycle since 1982. From 1976 I had had two bikes and sidecar combinations. Before that a little 175 2-stroke BSA bantam. My experience with a big heavy, powerful solo tourers was zero. I'll wait to get used to it for a couple for weeks before I even think about riding with a pillion. But I had nothing to worry about - my partner was on the back with me half an hour later.

I booked a training session with a Class 1 Police instructor for a weekend. I was his last customer before he started a new contract with the police riders. So I had him all to myself.
All I wanted to know was whether I was safe. Oh yes, you are safe enough. But you're not getting the best out of the bike. Get on the back, let me show you.
Well I had the Exedras on. He was about the same size and weight as me. Big. I was concerend about whether it could handle the load and whether the tyres were up to the job.

The police bike at the time was the same model as mine. Non-ABS ST1100. He was used to them. He also used to race (other) bikes on tracks at the weekend.
We took off, and he threw us round roundabouts as if he was on an emergency call or on the racetrack. The tyres were of no consequence - although he said that he had been holding back a little bit. To me - you don't get to lean very far with a sidecar - it felt like my ear was about to get road rash. Did I need radials to get the performance from the bike. Apparently not.
 
Rhubarbray said:
Has anyone switched from one type to the other and what did you notice about the handling, tire life, etc?
Click to expand...
The first/major things I noted with radials installed:
- indirect front feedback
- harsh ride, every single crack or step in the road bounces really hard
- bike won't hold a straight course, always drifting left/right/all over the lane...
- tires creep up/catch on longitudinal grooves/unevenness, be it white-lines, tar-snakes, truck rooves, the tires lock onto them...
- tendency to noticeable dec wobble...
- don't like to lean, you need to literally hulk the bike into a corner and then fight that it stays down... (kinda "added character"...)
- quite inaccurate handling while leaned, don't like load changes (even thinking on applying brakes lead the bike to violently pop vertical), never exit at the point you'd aimed at...
- a narrow safety margin while leaned with almost no pre-warning... hold... hold... hold... BAM! Rear slides out...
- about only half the mileage/live-span (which is the final no-go; no place for tires that won't even last for 6000km/3750miles on a long distance tourer...)

Now a look on those oh-so-old-style bias/ply Exedras:
- very precise steering
- comfy ride, tires absorb a lot on crappy roads
- high stability in running straight, one can actually take both hands of the bars at 100mph, light a cigarette, sip a RedBull, etc...
- almost completely ignores/absorbs any longitudinal influences, not even asphalt milling (done to reduce car aquaplaning) will be noticed...
- barely any dec wobble, their build really precise, didn't need to relocate and balance weights for a couple of years now...
- very agile, bike leans over with no effort...
- total precise handling, very neutral on load changes, applying brakes has at most only minimal effect on leaning angle/handling in corners...
- a wide, nice envelope with gentle warning during which front and rear slowly start to drift outward equally...
- a proper live-span of 10~12,000km/6000~7500miles, hence suitable for touring for 3 weeks and then some...

The selection on 110/80 R18 TL 58 W (front) is quite limited though...
T31 or T32 might work, but won't have the live-span of a G547 by far...
 
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ST1100Y said:
- a proper live-span of 10~12,000km/6000~7500miles, hence suitable for touring for 3 weeks and then some...

The selection on 110/80 R18 TL 58 W (front) is quite limited though...
T31 or T32 might work, but won't have the live-span of a G547 by far...
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Yep, I agree with just about all of this.... but... I can no longer get a G547 in Europe for love nor money. I have tried everywhere. I managed to order and receive two rear G548s but the same companies that provided those showed G547s in stock, took the order, but then came back with 'no stock' and refunded the money (after the rears were despatched). So now I have two bias ply rears with no matching fronts.. aaaaargh. To the best of my knowledge I cannot legally mix radial and bias ply in the UK.

I have just emailed a company in the US who show they have G547s to see if they will ship to the UK, fingers crossed.
 
as usual with tire/oil threads, lots of differing opinions.

I've used all kinds of different tires on mine, have noticed some differences between bias and radials, but nothing significant enough that I will only use one or the other.

For me when I switched from bias to radial the first time, I noticed the front end feel was a bit more vague while in a straight line, but as soon as I leaned over into a turn that went away.
 
When I had my 01 1100, I ran the OEM Bridgestone Exedra tires on it and really liked them. I got the best wear out of them that I've had on any bike I've ever owned (11k miles rear, 14k front) and they handled really well. If I still had the bike, that's what I'd use. I tried using the radial Exedras on my 1300, but only got around 7k on the rear, maybe 8k on the front which is what I typically get with other tires.
 
Somehow this thread reminds of oil threads. Yes, there may be differences for the astute riders, but for me (and I'm guessing others), a highly regarded tire like the Michelin Road series or the Bridgestone Battleax series which are specifically designed for optimum performance (since their reputation depends on it) will continue to be my tire of choice. I'm not sure I really need to care about how the experts choose to arrange their cord plies.
 
Flexit said:
I have just emailed a company in the US who show they have G547s to see if they will ship to the UK, fingers crossed.
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Yeehaa. Success, two G547s on their way. Cost overall (including shipping) is only just over $20 per tyre more than I was going to have to pay (had they been available!) from Germany.
 
Flexit said:
Yeehaa. Success, two G547s on their way. Cost overall (including shipping) is only just over $20 per tyre more than I was going to have to pay (had they been available!) from Germany.
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Do tell... searching since fall, rear is widely avail, no luck on the front... was hoping on new deliveries in spring (Bridgestone JP and US still list them!)
Dunno if overseas shipment + customs VAT wouldn't be a real killer for me...
 
ST1100Y said:
Do tell... searching since fall, rear is widely avail, no luck on the front... was hoping on new deliveries in spring (Bridgestone JP and US still list them!)
Dunno if overseas shipment + customs VAT wouldn't be a real killer for me...
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@ST1100Y Seller was https://www.motomentum.com/bridgestone-firestone-g547-110-80v18-front-tubeless-201348

Tyres cost $157.59 each (after discount, obtained by registering as a customer), Shipping $188.65 (for both tyres) and they gave me another $5 off as reward points! Total came to $498, converted by Paypal to Sterling Pounds £408.47. Delticom were quoting £182 per tyre (the German company that operates under different names ie Mytyres/Gigatyres), but then didn't have them :mad:

Yeah, I've still got to face potential customs (4% import for tyres and probably 20% VAT too). However, I'm getting the tyres I feel comfortable with, handle well (particularly on the Flexit outfit - very important) and last well (my average over 165,000 miles is around 10,000 miles for the front). Also means that I can use the two rear G548s that I have already got :giggle: Other tyres may cost less but also wear quicker so my non-accountant brain says there's not a lot of difference in it...... more to the point I can afford it and it makes me happy :D
 
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