ST1100 - Clutch not quite fully disengaging - any suggestions?

CYYJ

CYYJ

Michael
Joined
Jun 10, 2013
Messages
2,218
Age
69
Location
Toronto & Zürich
Bike
None any more.
Hi friends:

I have an odd problem that is perplexing me, I'm wondering if anyone here in our community has encountered it before and knows what the solution is.

The clutch on my 2001 ST1100 does not fully disengage when the clutch lever is pulled in all the way. It disengages about '98%', but the last 2% of engagement is creating problems... it's difficult to paddle the bike backwards if it is in gear and the engine is running, and it is also difficult to find neutral with the clutch pulled in all the way when the bike is stationery and the engine is running.

The vast majority of the engage-disengage action takes place within the first 25% of clutch lever movement. Hence there is no problem riding the bike, no problem shifting when riding, etc.

The bike has 170,000 km on it (a little over 100,000 miles), and has always been very carefully maintained by my Swiss dealer. The oil & filter were changed a few days ago, and I have ridden 500 km (about 300 miles) in the last couple of days - all through mountain passes in the Alps, which means I have been shifting constantly, so the whole system has had a really good workout this week.

I think this problem began about 30,000 miles ago - I say this because that's about when I noticed it was difficult to find neutral at a stop with the engine running and the clutch pulled in. I didn't consider that the clutch wasn't fully disengaging until the tech at my Honda dealer pointed it out earlier this week after taking the bike for a test ride.

I've done a cursory inspection of the clutch lever, the bushing at the lever pivot point is not worn. The clutch fluid has always been changed every 2 years, along with the brake fluid. Engine idle speed is about 800 RPM.

Is there any kind of 'adjustment' of the clutch possible? Can anyone suggest a solution to this problem?

Michael
 
Michael - I've encountered a 'similar' issue when my clutch master cylinder was headed south on one of my ST1100s. I would think it is either the master cylinder or the slave cylinder (or both) 'losing' a little hydraulic pressure.
 
I was going to suggest the bushing but you mentioned checking it already. The only things left I can suggest are the slave and master cylinders. I went over 200K miles on the factory slave cylinder but rebuilt the master twice. Rebuild kit is about $35 USD depending on where you get it.

Side note: I looked 2 places and the bushing was not shown in the exploded view. I know I have purchased the bushing several times. I wonder if you have to buy the lever to get the bushing.
 
I suggest to start with replacing the lever (brass bearing for the pivot worn oval), the bush (22885-MB0-006) actuating the rod to increase the lift on the MC piston again and see if that cures it.
If not or only change marginally, I'd go with UP and overhaul MC and receiver; after 15 years a no-brainer ;-)
 
You are able to purchase just the brass bushing from Partzilla FYI - I just did the handle/bushing/rod/boot overhaul on my '96 a couple of weeks ago. Have been meaning to write up a thread with pictures to show others what I found but haven't gotten to it yet - but will cross post the link when I have it up.

My issue was not the same as the OP however...and honestly I don't think it sounds like replacing bushing will help since he is still getting most of his clutch engagement at the beginning of the handle pull. I'd agree with the cylinder diagnosis and start there.
 
FWIW, I agree Phil, Ron, and Martin. Does 'well maintained' include clutch maintenance? Try a fluid R&R and thorough bleed first.

BTW, up your idle to at least 1,100 rpm. The engine needs the oil pressure.

John
 
Many thanks to all of you for your assistance - as John said, I think Phil, Ron, and Martin pretty much nailed it, either the clutch master cylinder or the slave cylinder has worn out and that is the cause of my problem.

During the next 4 weeks, I will be riding around Southern France, Spain, Portugal and later Morocco, which means I will need to get this problem fixed "on the road". There is a Honda dealer in Bragan?a, Portugal that I have used before... they mostly service little scooters and bikes under 250 cc, but they did do a tire change for me many years ago and they were very meticulous about it (I think they were actually a bit scared of the size of the ST1100). To avoid a 3 or 4 day delay waiting for parts, I will need to write to them well ahead of time and ask them to pre-order the parts necessary to rebuild the two cylinders.

Unfortunately, I don't have either the Common Service Manual or the ST 1100 service manual with me - both are back at home in Toronto. I understand that there is a kit available from Honda to rebuild each of the cylinders. I also suspect that some seals and other rubber parts will need to be replaced when each of the cylinders are disassembled.

May I trouble one of you to put together a 'parts list' of all the parts that should be pre-ordered to carry out this work? If there is any doubt about whether a seal, washer, etc. should be replaced, let's include it, because it would be no fun to be stuck in town for several days for want of a single O-ring or similar part.

Once again, my gratitude to all of you, it's great to be part of such a helpful community.

Michael
(from Millau, France at the moment)

PS: John, thanks for the suggestion about idle speed, I will crank it up a bit.
 
The usual culprit is the bushing, #2 or #3, for the master cylinder. You mentioned checking part #2 and were satisfied it was OK.
 
John Heath, Roger:

Thank you very much for the links you have provided, you have given me sufficient information to identify and order the necessary parts ahead of time. John, special thanks for providing the photos of the parts - that really makes things clear.

Roger - you might be amused to know that I am still using the STEFI plate that you provided me with about 12 or 13 years ago. I think it was one of your prototypes. It's the only part on the bike that doesn't wear out.

Michael
 
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Did you end up troubleshooting and fixing your issue?

I just wrote up the handle/bushing/rod/boot overhaul I did with photos and you can see why I don't think that was the problem. The rod in my assembly was worn all the way through the bushing AND the handle and was still activating the clutch (although just barely)...so if you aren't seeing any wear in there the problem has to be down the line somewhere....
 
Hi Smunderdog:

Thanks very much for creating that illustrated write-up, it is very enlightening.

I have not got around to fixing the problem yet, in part because I am on the road travelling - working my way south in Portugal - and in part because the effects of the problem are not all that serious (right now) - it's difficult to find neutral when the engine is running, and I can feel resistance if I try to paddle the bike backwards with the engine running and the clutch in, but that's the extent of the effects.

I did take apart my clutch lever, and there is no wear at all in the bushing, rod, or handle. I phoned my Swiss dealer (who have been maintaining this bike for the last 15 years), and they checked through their records and noted that they replaced the clutch lever bushing in 2012. They take the brake and clutch levers off every winter to lubricate them (I know this because every spring, I have to wipe away excess grease from the top of the bushing), and I guess in 2012 they didn't like the look of the bushing and replaced it. They never mentioned this to me, but the part number was on my 2012 winter invoice.

I suspect that the problem is caused by wear within either the clutch master cylinder or the clutch slave cylinder. The sight glass shows that the master cylinder is full of light yellow colour fluid. The fluid is due to be changed during the winter 2016-2017 (it was last changed winter 2014-2015). I'll get them to rebuild the two actuators (master and slave) this coming winter.

Right now, I'm preoccupied with another problem, that being that the two fasteners for the front wheel speed-sensor seem to have disappeared... see this post: Front Wheel Speed-Sensor has become detached from the motorcycle.

Michael
 
Sorry bit of a hijack but just a quick question on a similar topic, I fitted a new clutch kit 2 years ago, 15k miles done since approx.

anyway the issue is when driving away, especially when cold the clutch 'squeals' as I let it out, this happens when pulling out onto the road on a slight uphill slant, don't notice it after the bike has warmed up, anything to worry about? thanks.
 
jfheath said:
My old ST1100AY used to do that - in fact when I read your post, I had to check that it wasn't one that I had written a few years back - the circumstances were identical. Except it was more of a high pitched 'grrraunch'. I used to set off at a T junction, uphill, first thing in the morning. It would graunch as I let the clutch out, I'd pull the clutch in momentarily and drive off, and it would not do it again until the following morning.

Something was going on down there, but I never got to find out what. I changed my oil and that seemed to stop it from doing it most of the time.

I don't know if I have a record of which way I changed - but the bike always felt better on fully synthetic anyway, so I always used that. On occasions I'd use 10w-30 and other times I'd use 10w-40. I think I used 10w-30 when touring in the alps/Pyrenees in the summer.

I might have a post on here - I'll look back. (Sorry, it was a long time ago now - I forget the details).
Click to expand...


Thanks John, I always use Motul 10w 40 semi synthetic, it's funny though the bike never done this on the original clutch, bit of a mystery.
 
Michael
I’m in Larrau, FR reading this thread with my clutch problem. Can’t beleive the coincidence. How’s it possible? Anyway, did you ever solve your problem?
 
FireAndIce said:
Michael
I’m in Larrau, FR reading this thread with my clutch problem...
Click to expand...
I'm not too far away from you: I'm in Almeria, Spain at this moment, which is about 600 miles to the south.

My Swiss dealer rebuilt the clutch master cylinder during the winter of 2016-2017, but they failed to rebuild the clutch slave cylinder. The shifting problem went away for a few months (about 4,000 miles) but has since returned. This suggests to me that I need to rebuild the clutch slave cylinder (I think I'll just replace the whole darn assembly [Honda part number 22860-ML7-010] rather than fooling around trying to 'rebuild' it). Of greater concern to me is that I suspect that the clutch hose (the hose running from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder, Honda part number 22900-MAJ-G00) may have deteriorated over the years and might be swelling a bit when pressure is applied. That hose is listed as 'no longer available' from most parts sites.

I'm going to be leaving my motorcycle (the 1100) in Malaga next Tuesday and flying back to Toronto from Madrid. I plan to return and pick it up in January, and do some riding in southern Spain and in Morocco. I'm going to pick up all the parts necessary to replace the clutch slave cylinder while I am home this fall, then do the replacement myself once I get back to Malaga.

John Heath prepared an excellent list of the necessary parts in a post above (post #9 of this discussion).

Best regards, Michael
 
I think you could purchase a stainless steel braided hose line. Maybe from a company that makes the brake line hoses. They may be available off the shelf. Some one could make one for you, but you would need to knew the length and fittings needed .
 
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