ST 1100 Electrics

[merv shepherd]

Hi folks
I'm new to this forum, my name is Merv and i own a 2000 st 1100 ex police bike. I was given it in a bad state it had no wheels, no seat, badly rusted forks. It was sat out the back of a friends garden for four years. After getting it home i purchased a new battery fitted it put a couple of litres of fresh petrol in with the old fuel and after three goes on the start button the beast fired into life and ticked over as if it had never been left.
I know most of you wont want to hear this but i'm turning her into a trike due to a couple of personnel reasons.
What i would like to know is can i strip all the wiring loom out and just have an ignition circuit on the bike just to be able to start it and ride, any help in this matter would be very much appreciated

Merv.

 

[Al st1100]

Hi folks
I'm new to this forum, my name is Merv and i own a 2000 st 1100 ex police bike. I was given it in a bad state it had no wheels, no seat, badly rusted forks. It was sat out the back of a friends garden for four years. After getting it home i purchased a new battery fitted it put a couple of litres of fresh petrol in with the old fuel and after three goes on the start button the beast fired into life and ticked over as if it had never been left.
I know most of you wont want to hear this but i'm turning her into a trike due to a couple of personnel reasons.
What i would like to know is can i strip all the wiring loom out and just have an ignition circuit on the bike just to be able to start it and ride, any help in this matter would be very much appreciated

Merv.

anything can be done but if your looking to strip 3/4 of the wiring out and have it start and run I don.t think that would be easy because there are many intertwined systems. You would have to rewire most of it.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

I know most of you wont want to hear this but i'm turning her into a trike due to a couple of personnel reasons.

As far as I am concerned, whatever gets someone out riding is good. If that is a trike- all the more power to you.

What i would like to know is can i strip all the wiring loom out and just have an ignition circuit on the bike just to be able to start it and ride, any help in this matter would be very much appreciated

Are you referring to the wiring loom added for the police accessories or the Honda OEM wiring loom?
If the latter, will you be riding it on public roads?
If so, you will need all the wiring to connect up to a battery, a fuse box for fuses for whatever electrical items that are retained, as well as the associated wiring to run the ignition circuit, the starter circuit, the charging system, the fuel pump, oil pressure sender circuit and all of the lighting. About the only thing that you can eliminate is the bank angle sensor. I don't see much benefit.

If you do not need it to be road legal, you will still need to retain all of the above except the lighting circuits and associated wiring and will need to do a lot of rewiring to bypass items that you have removed in order to reconnect circuits that still need to be powered and previously ran through those items. Still does not seem to be a big benefit.

 

[aSTerix]

What i would like to know is can i strip all the wiring loom out and just have an ignition circuit on the bike just to be able to start it and ride, any help in this matter would be very much appreciated

I love questions like this, appeals to my hacker side !

I had a look at the wiring diagram and assuming the following:

1) You will aim to achieve braking in a purely mechanical (ie. hydraulic but no electrical) way
2) You are pulling out the entire wiring harness and will install the bare minimum of wiring (this isn't necessary but simplifies the design)
3) You are happy to dispense with all the protection circuits (side stand down, in gear starting etc etc )

Then :

A) Alternator is straightforward, just needs a (switched) voltage sense (and of course +ve power lead to battery)
B) Starter motor is easy, just needs a switched 12v supply , best through a relay
C) Ignition is done through an ECU but its very basic and it looks like you can fool it easily, you will need to keep the pulse generator and tacho feed and add 12v or gnd as appropriate to some input pins.
D) You would need to install a switch and wiring to power the radiator fan (or could loop in the thermo sensor & use a relay)
E) Lighting could be very basic
F) will need the Tachometer powered (12v) to tap the electronic signal for ignition
G) Fuel pump needs to be powered (12v) and earthed. This needs to be switched
H) might be others, I am still checking Honda Service Manual (HSM)

This should get you rolling !

It would be useful to know if you have any of these : ABS, TCS, LBS but I think all can be bypassed mechanically and/or electrically

If you decide to proceed with this project I am more than happy to assist

Meanwhile I will research the Ignition ECU and scope out a bypass

EDIT: I've just looked at the TCS (not sure if you have it or not) , this has a lot of self diagnostics and also uses "State" over time i.e. it looks at a range of inputs and looks at the change of State (On or OFF). So long as its fail mode still allows the ignition circuit to function then all of this can be ignored, however, if it affects the ignition then either you could swap it for a non TCS version (cheap on ebay) or a slightly more complicated intelligent 'octopus' is required (its not rocket science and easy to do but not as simple as just adding a +ve or Gnd to an input pin)

 

[merv shepherd]

I love questions like this, appeals to my hacker side !

I had a look at the wiring diagram and assuming the following:

1) You will aim to achieve braking in a purely mechanical (ie. hydraulic but no electrical) way
2) You are pulling out the entire wiring harness and will install the bare minimum of wiring (this isn't necessary but simplifies the design)
3) You are happy to dispense with all the protection circuits (side stand down, in gear starting etc etc )

Then :

A) Alternator is straightforward, just needs a (switched) voltage sense (and of course +ve power lead to battery)
B) Starter motor is easy, just needs a switched supply to a relay (and of course the +ve power lead )
C) Ignition is done through an ECU but its very basic and it looks like you can fool it easily, you will need to keep the pulse generator and tacho feed
D) You would need to install a switch and wiring to power the radiator fan (or could loop in the thermo sensor & use a relay)
E) Lighting could be very basic
F) will need the Tachometer powered (12v) to tap the electronic signal for ignition
G) might be others, I am still checking Honda Service Manual (HSM)

This should get you rolling !

It would be useful to know if you have any of these : ABS, TCS, LBS but I think all can be bypassed mechanically and/or electrically

If you decide to proceed with this project I am more than happy to assist

Meanwhile I will research the Ignition ECU and scope out a bypass 'octopus' using the existing plug connector

EDIT: I've just looked at the TCS (not sure if you have it or not) , this has a lot of self diagnostics and also uses "State" over time i.e. it looks at a range of inputs and looks at the change of State. So long as its fail mode still allows the ignition circuit to function then all of this can be ignored, however, if it affects the ignition then either you could swap it for a non TCS version (cheap on ebay) or a slightly more complicated intelligent 'octopus' is required (its not rocket science and easy to do but not as simple as just adding a +ve or Gnd to an input pin )

 

[Roger]

merv - seen this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JZR_Trikes

 

[merv shepherd]

I love questions like this, appeals to my hacker side !

I had a look at the wiring diagram and assuming the following:

1) You will aim to achieve braking in a purely mechanical (ie. hydraulic but no electrical) way
2) You are pulling out the entire wiring harness and will install the bare minimum of wiring (this isn't necessary but simplifies the design)
3) You are happy to dispense with all the protection circuits (side stand down, in gear starting etc etc )

Then :

A) Alternator is straightforward, just needs a (switched) voltage sense (and of course +ve power lead to battery)
B) Starter motor is easy, just needs a switched 12v supply , best through a relay
C) Ignition is done through an ECU but its very basic and it looks like you can fool it easily, you will need to keep the pulse generator and tacho feed and add 12v or gnd as appropriate to some input pins.
D) You would need to install a switch and wiring to power the radiator fan (or could loop in the thermo sensor & use a relay)
E) Lighting could be very basic
F) will need the Tachometer powered (12v) to tap the electronic signal for ignition
G) might be others, I am still checking Honda Service Manual (HSM)

This should get you rolling !

It would be useful to know if you have any of these : ABS, TCS, LBS but I think all can be bypassed mechanically and/or electrically

If you decide to proceed with this project I am more than happy to assist

Meanwhile I will research the Ignition ECU and scope out a bypass 'octopus' using the existing plug connector

EDIT: I've just looked at the TCS (not sure if you have it or not) , this has a lot of self diagnostics and also uses "State" over time i.e. it looks at a range of inputs and looks at the change of State (On or OFF). So long as its fail mode still allows the ignition circuit to function then all of this can be ignored, however, if it affects the ignition then either you could swap it for a non TCS version (cheap on ebay) or a slightly more complicated intelligent 'octopus' is required (its not rocket science and easy to do but not as simple as just adding a +ve or Gnd to an input pin)

Hi Steve
Thanks for your reply it sounds most encouraging , all the police side of the electrics have gone. It never had ABS, TCS , or any thing else fitted. I'ts just got the standard wire loom fitted. This is exactly what i wont to achieve 3) You are happy to dispense with all the protection circuits (side stand down, in gear starting etc etc ).
If you can do me a diagram showing the wires and there colour coming out of the ECU and where the need to go to do what they need to to make the bike run would be most helpful. I don't know if you have heard of one but i intend on fitting a m-unit to run the lights, horn and indicators.

Merv

 

[aSTerix]

If you can do me a diagram showing the wires and there colour coming out of the ECU and where the need to go to do what they need to to make the bike run would be most helpful.

I have just has a look at the HSM and the Clymer and noticed different colour coding, if you could tell me what colour wires you have I can then work out which scheme to use, just need the wires on the plug that connects to the Ignition Control Module (which is located at the front of the bike). There are 9 wires attached to the plug.

Using the Haynes manual for ST1100Y (non ABS) I see:

Light Green, Yellow/Green, Yellow, White/Yellow, Blue/White, Black/White, Yellow/Blue, Green, Green/White

It would also be helpful to know which (if any) of the handlbar switches you want to keep , it will be simpler to work through the engine RUN and starter if possible

 

[merv shepherd]

I have just has a look at the HSM and the Clymer and noticed different colour coding, if you could tell me what colour wires you have I can then work out which scheme to use, just need the wires on the plug that connects to the Ignition Control Module (which is located at the front of the bike). There are 9 wires attached to the plug.

Using the Haynes manual for ST1100Y (non ABS) I see:

Light Green, Yellow/Green, Yellow, White/Yellow, Blue/White, Black/White, Yellow/Blue, Green, Green/White

I have just has a look at the HSM and the Clymer and noticed different colour coding, if you could tell me what colour wires you have I can then work out which scheme to use, just need the wires on the plug that connects to the Ignition Control Module (which is located at the front of the bike). There are 9 wires attached to the plug.

Using the Haynes manual for ST1100Y (non ABS) I see:

Light Green, Yellow/Green, Yellow, White/Yellow, Blue/White, Black/White, Yellow/Blue, Green, Green/White

It would also be helpful to know which (if any) of the handlbar switches you want to keep , it will be simpler to work through the engine RUN and starter if possible
[/QUOTE

This is my plug and the wires, hope this helps.
Merv

 

[merv shepherd]

Hi steve
Thanks for your help in this matter, what do I leave the blue and white attached to.
So can I cut the plug out of the loom with enough tails attached to be able to wire it up the way you said .
I have attached a picture of my plug and the wires, hope this helps.

 

[aSTerix]

Hi steve
Thanks for your help in this matter, what do I leave the blue and white attached to.
So can I cut the plug out of the loom with enough tails attached to be able to wire it up the way you said .
I have attached a picture of my plug and the wires, hope this helps.

Thats what I needed, let me have a look at your schematic (2000 model non ABS) and I'll send a PM (the icon that looks like an envelope at top right of screen)

Don't cut any wires just yet !!

 

[aSTerix]

Can you kindly check, the 3rd wire from top, is it White or White/Yellow ?

 

[merv shepherd]

Hi Steve
Its white , i do intend on using the ignition key and start button but in a different position

Merv

 

[aSTerix]

Hi Merv

Working from your photo, top down (I just did this quickly in the morning, will double check later and update if necessary, the yellow/blue proved interesting !)

Wire Colour	Purpose	Action	Note
Yellow​	Pulse Generator	leave connected	ensure same colour wires connected at engine (pulse generator)
Green​	Ground	leave connected (or run wire to negative, see note)	ensure you have a green wire connected to frame at some point or run a green wire from here to -ve
White/yellow​	Pulse Generator	leave connected
Black/White​	Switched +ve supply	leave connected (see note)	This is supplied through RUN switch, if you don't use RUN switch then run 12v positive here. This also supplies 12v rail on Fuel Cut Off Relay. when initially supplied with 12v this triggers Fuel Cut Off relay to power fuel pump for 2-3 secs then turn off until yellow/blue active
Yellow/green​	Tachometer	optional	this feeds the tacho, leave connected if you want the tacho to function
Green/white​	Sidestand (up = grounded)	cut and wire to Ground
Light green​	Neutral (in neutral = grounded)	cut and wire to Ground	(or you can simply connect to the Green/white if you have just grounded it)
Yellow/blue​	to Gnd via transistor : coil 1,3	leave connected	This also supplies 'engine running' sense on the Fuel Cut Off Relay (FCOR).
Blue/yellow​	to Gnd via transistor : coil 2,4	leave connected
​

Not sure if you would like the theory behind it or not, either way is good for me. I'll include some basic theory as we go but I can dispense with it if you would just prefer the 'actions'

Here is a schematic showing how the ECM works:

When I refer to the 'transistor' its hidden inside the ECM box. The transistor opens and allows current to flow through the primary and 'charge' the coil, then the transistor is closed and the secondary coil discharges through the spark plug. The coil ignites two spark plugs at the same time (1&3) or (2&4) , only one spark is used the other is wasted

You can see on the diagram the pulse generator and the switched 12v supply

 

[merv shepherd]

Thanks Steve
This has been a big help, I have been trying to get this kind of information for quite some time. It will be a couple of weeks before I can try this.
What do you do for a living, your not an electrician are you

Merv

 

[Alesco]

I'm just scratching my head and wondering - why? I'm not seeing the purpose/reasoning?
I'm obviously missing the whole point.

 

[aSTerix]

It will be a couple of weeks before I can try this.

In the meantime if you would like, we could look at the fuel system electrics, do you plan to use the existing tank or install another? If another tank; can you get it high enough to use gravity feed ?

 

[aSTerix]

I don't know if you have heard of one but i intend on fitting a m-unit to run the lights, horn and indicators.

I hadn't heard of an 'm-unit' before but if its one of these https://motogadget.com/shop/en/m-unit-blue.html I want one !!

 

[aSTerix]

What do you do for a living, your not an electrician are you

A very long time ago I was a Power Engineer (Electrical & Mechanical ) working in Oil & Gas but joined the military and went flying instead, now I design airlines and hack things in my spare time for R&R.

 

[aSTerix]

I own a 2000 st 1100 ex police bike. I was given it in a bad state it had no wheels, no seat, badly rusted forks ............. i'm turning her into a trike

Just a thought, why not start a new thread titled some thing ST1100 trike project and uploading photos as you go, I think a lot of people may be interested in watching and helping with the overall project