Problems going from Neutral to 1st or 2nd gear

[Juanda]

Hello

I'm Juanda. First post around here. I recently bought a Honda ST1300 (2005). It's a pleasure to ride on the highway. I don't get to ride it often but the few times I do have been nice. Especially on the highway (except for the freaking tolls).
As I drive it more often, I find more things about it I don't understand. To be precise:

• Windshield issues
• Squeaky noise related to the wheel rotation
• Problems going from Neutral to 1st or 2nd gear

For the first issue, I found a few related posts which I will research in due time.
For the second issue, I didn't find anything so I'll create a separate post soon enough.
And the third issue is what I'd like to be the focus of this post.

It's my first bike with a hydraulic clutch so maybe this is a normal thing and I'm just not familiar with it. Once the bike is running, it changes gears smoothly. However, when starting from a stop, sometimes the gears don't engage. Trying to force them doesn't help. Eventually, I realized the way to do it was to release the clutch lever and try a second time. On the second time, it does perfectly fine. It's not a big issue but it's annoying having to press the clutch twice to achieve normal operation and I doubt this is the intended use. Besides, I now live in Italy and drivers here can get very impatient on the road so I'm a little anxious about engaging neutral on red lights in case I have issues later or it takes me too long to get back in movement.
By the way, the bike engages the neutral gear without issues. It's just coming out of it that's troublesome.

To emphasize again, the sequence usually goes as follows.

1. I'm stopped in neutral.
2. Press the clutch lever all the way in.
3. Push for 1st (or 2nd) gear.
4. The gear doesn't engage and the bike stays in neutral no matter how hard you push it.
5. Release the clutch lever.
6. Press the clutch lever all the way in again.
7. Push for 1st (or 2nd) gear.
8. The gear engages fine and I can restart movement.

Do you know what could be going on with the clutch? The bike used to be owned by a mechanic and it seems to be in good condition. Or at least, he was able to hide the grainy bits very well which an experienced mechanic would know how to do for sure. The bike is pretty old but feels solid and they are known to last a lifetime if they're cared for. Let's see if I can help it last.

Thanks in advance

 

[r2c9y]

I would have started with checking the clutch master and slave cylinders, and the oil level + viscosity.

From the manual:

 

[Upt' North]

I would start by bleeding the clutch, cheap, easy and simple.
If that doesn't improve things then I would probably start with a slave cylinder strip and rebuild.
If that doesn't work the same for the master cylinder.
Upt.

Welcome from Northumberland, England.

 

[SMSW]

Most of the brake and clutch problems on this bike can be traced to not flushing and changing the brake (and clutch) fluid regularly. Honda says every two years. The guys here with fewest problems do it every year. Your bike is 20 years old, ample time for bad brake fluid to have gummed up the clutch slave cylinder. If you start by bleeding the clutch, read up on the procedure to bleed the brakes and buy enough brake fluid to do both. Consider bleeding the brakes at the same time if you have not bled them in the last year. You must follow the procedure step by step.

The windshield was originally lubed with a grease that some have found to dry out with age. You probably will have to remove the front cowl to dig into the mechanism and clean and lubricate it. The guy at bike quip sells some parts to repair it and this is far cheaper than replacing the whole thing.

Article [13] - ST1300 - Electric Windshield Assembly - Remove / Clean / Reinstall | ST1300 Articles

Two documents: 1st - Removal of the Electric Windshield Assembly 2nd - Clean and Reinstall

www.st-owners.com

Article [13] - ST1300 - Windshield mechanism gear relacement | ST1300 Articles

This document ST1300 Window Adjustment Mechanism Removal.pdf shows step by step instructions for removal of the ST1300 Window Adjustment Mechanism (Honda Part# 64170-MCS-G01). As more owners report mechanism failure, it is becoming clear that regular removal, inspection, cleaning, lubrication...

www.st-owners.com

Wheel squeak? I'll assume it is not wheel bearings because brake issues are more common. Improper installation of the clips on the pads can cause this...and there are a number of articles dealing with brakes (blue band atop this page, Articles > 1300.....)

 

[jfheath]

Check the hole in the brass bush in the clutch lever is not worn
Bleed the clutch fluid of all air
Lubricate the gear lever linkage

Then move on to the more expensive solutions

edit. Clutch bleed. Use the technique of pumping the lever a few times, then hold the lever in, then open the bleed valve. Close the bleed valve just before the fluid stops flowing. Repeat. It is the only way to get the fluid changed in the slave cylinder.

edit 2. The clutch lever brass bush - the pushrod goes INSIDE the hole. Mark its position with a felt pen on the top of the bush before re-assembly. @Gus1300 below reminded me about that in his comment below.

 

[Gus1300]

And pay attention to how the push rod goes into the brass bushing/clutch master cylinder piston when putting the lever back on after checking the bushing...don't ask how I know!

edit: to expand on John's comment above, it not only goes into the brass bushing, but it goes in with the squared off end into the brass bushing, not the round end. That end goes into the piston cup.

 

[Juanda]

Thank you all for the very useful replies. I'll try to troubleshoot it from simple to complex as you suggested.
I'm sorting out an issue with the garage and as soon as I can I'll start working on the machine.

 

[Larry Fine]

If the first clutch pull does little, but the second pull works, I would suspect the master cylinder is worn.

 

[RaYzerman]

Definitely lube the shift linkage, likely never been done and won't let the shifter parts return to proper position....
Of course check the clutch system as others have also noted.

 

[jfheath]

edit: to expand on John's comment above, it not only goes into the brass bushing, but it goes in with the squared off end into the brass bushing, not the round end. That end goes into the piston cup.

I don't think that I knew that, though it makes sense to put the round end in the cup. I've only ever had need to separate the push rod from the rubber boot once. I noted that the two 'halves' were different so I probably put it together correctly.

That was my first 1100, 1996 model. 29,000 miles on the clock when I got it and clutch was a bit iffy. I tackled the master and slave cylinder and cleaned off the coating of thick black paste that I found, and then wondered where the seals were.​

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I took my brother's calipers apart a couple of weeks ago - brake issues. ST1100 1997 model. The pistons were pitted, but mostly the seals were pretty sound - apart from the ones that had melted in their grooves due to brake drag heat. But 28 years with little servicing. Not one of the seals had turned to a thick paste. I often wondered what the previous owner had put in my clutch fluid to result in them turning into the consistency of very cold butter.​

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Someone I once helped change a brake master cylinder piston. I explained about ensuring that the seal went in flared end first, and showed him how to do that and to use a little brake fluid to help. He commented that he found it easier to lubricate the seal with washing up liquid. I often wondered if that was how my clutch seals disintegrated.​

​

But I digress.​