generator hook-up

[v8-7]

Background :
I have a pretty standard setup : 5KW generator that plugs into my house through a l14-30 cable into a plug on the side of my house, wired to my circuit breaker box through a40 amp breaker with a manual operated lockout type transfer switch.

For years my neighbor has also been plugging in an extension cord . to run 2 refrigerators


He is now getting a 14 KW unit and has offered to let me plug in to his house which would be from the time the power goes out, until I get my generator running. Usually the next morning.


So basically , when a storm is coming in, I would be plugged into his unit and would have some power, typically from the evening when the power usually goes out , until the storm has passed and I would set up my own unit.





Rather then using an extension cord to power just a few items, what I would like to do is cut the end off the extension cord and wire an l13-30 plug onto the end and plug that into my house .





That would only be one leg of the 220 feed ..


So I think I would be powering one side of the circuit breaker and all circuits on one side would have power, and the other side no power .


That would work for me as all the circuits I would want to use are one 1 side of the box except for 1 which can be easily moved.


Is that how it would work ?


I know I am plugging into only a 15 amp circuit and would have limited power.

Thanks, Stan

 

[SMSW]

Background :
I have a pretty standard setup : 5KW generator that plugs into my house through a l14-30 cable into a plug on the side of my house, wired to my circuit breaker box through a40 amp breaker with a manual operated lockout type transfer switch.

Why not just use your generator? Your genset is capable of providing 20 amps @ 240v, which is more than the 15 amps you would get from your neighbor. You also need to factor in voltage drop, and I'd guess said extension cord is longer than 50'. With no real protection, it would be very easy to overload the extension cord (I'm ignoring problems with your motors (refrige/freezer) due to voltage drop.

What do you mean by: "l14-30 cable"? That designation refers to a 30 amp twistlock receptacle. Do you mean you have a factory made 4 conductor extension cord rated at 30 amps from your 5kw unit to the house receptacle?

What you are proposing does not meet NEC standards. This sounds like a recipe for problems to me.

If you are going to move one circuit, is it part of a multiwire branch circuit? Did whoever installed it use 12/3 romex, or 14/3?

If the whole point of this is for him to pay you back for years of running two fridges, I'd just chalk it up to good neighboring and use your own generator. I assume your intent in providing him power in the past was done without the expectation of payback.

 

[Obo]

*not an electrician, but I know a Darwin award waiting when I see one*

All the other red flags aside in this scenario, you'd have an issue with multiple grounds (at least 1 per house.)

Run your own generator, or plug the proper extension cords in and do what he did for you for a couple of outlets. Don't tie in to half (or all of) your panel.

It also sounds like you are suggesting making a male to male extension cable. If you are, that's just electrocution waiting to happen.....

<shudder>

 

[Sadlsor]

*not an electrician, but I know a Darwin award waiting when I see one*

Not an electrician (obviously), but that's all FM* to me.


*Freaking Magic

 

[MidLife]

Why not just use your generator?

From the sound of it, his neighbor has a more of an "instant-on" set up and he is just trying to plug in until he gets his own to run..

 

[SMSW]

From the sound of it, his neighbor has a more of an "instant-on" set up and he is just trying to plug in until he gets his own to run..

So the extension cord from his neighbor's house is a permanent set-up? That makes things even worse.

My interpretation was it is more trouble for the OP to get out his genset in the midst of a storm, plug it in, and fire it up than go to his neighbor's house, plug in said extension cord, unfurl it to his house and plug it in. But we really don't know until he explains more.

It also sounds like you are suggesting making a male to male extension cable. If you are, that's just electrocution waiting to happen.....

<shudder>!!!!!

While I don't know what the OP has, typically, the manual lock-out for a transfer switch breaker is connected to a weatherproof box on the outside of the house. Flip open the cover and you see a male plug in a recess. The standard extension has a male plug that goes in the generator and the other end a female cord end - which plugs to that weather proof male plug. My guess is that is what the OP wants to make. At least I hope that's what he is talking about.

There is another problem here. The OP's generator plugs in with an L14-30 configuration - a 4 conductor twistlock. His proposal is to make an extension cord with an L13-30 - a 3 conductor twistlock. The two are incompatible, so he would have to wire in another weatherproof enclosure with the appropriate male plug inside. This is yet another thing wrong with the setup.

 

[v8-7]

Why not just use your generator? Your genset is capable of providing 20 amps @ 240v, which is more than the 15 amps you would get from your neighbor. You also need to factor in voltage drop, and I'd guess said extension cord is longer than 50'. With no real protection, it would be very easy to overload the extension cord (I'm ignoring problems with your motors (refrige/freezer) due to voltage drop.

The intention was so i wouldn't have to go outside in the storm to start the gen / a ) its a pull start and b) its been converted to run off natural gas .
Natural gas only has 80%of the energy of gasoline so start up is difficult. I usually have to fool around with the air cleaner and spray starting fluid in.

What do you mean by: "l14-30 cable"? That designation refers to a 30 amp twistlock receptacle. Do you mean you have a factory made 4 conductor extension cord rated at 30 amps from your 5kw unit to the house receptacle?

I meant its a standard gen cable , factory made.

What you are proposing does not meet NEC standards. This sounds like a recipe for problems to me.

If you are going to move one circuit, is it part of a multiwire branch circuit? Did whoever installed it use 12/3 romex, or 14/3?

not multiwire. I just moved the circuit breaker from 1 side to the other .

If the whole point of this is for him to pay you back for years of running two fridges, I'd just chalk it up to good neighboring and use your own generator. I assume your intent in providing him power in the past was done without the expectation of payback.

Absolutely, I have taken care of him and his wife in many other ways as well..

Thanks for your advice , I will probably set up my gen and either fight the storm to start it, wait until it passes or start it before the storm and just idle it until I need to switch it over , which is done in my garage .. so that may be the best solution.

 

[v8-7]

*not an electrician, but I know a Darwin award waiting when I see one*\\

still trying for the award

All the other red flags aside in this scenario, you'd have an issue with multiple grounds (at least 1 per house.)

Run your own generator, or plug the proper extension cords in and do what he did for you for a couple of outlets. Don't tie in to half (or all of) your panel.

It also sounds like you are suggesting making a male to male extension cable. If you are, that's just electrocution waiting to happen.....

Its male to female.
but see above comments

<shudder>

 

[v8-7]

So the extension cord from his neighbor's house is a permanent set-up? That makes things even worse.

My interpretation was it is more trouble for the OP to get out his genset in the midst of a storm, plug it in, and fire it up than go to his neighbor's house, plug in said extension cord, unfurl it to his house and plug it in. But we really don't know until he explains more.

Yes, the plan was , when the storm is imminent, I would connect the extension cord to the existing weatherproof box ,
When (if) the power went out, I would go into the garage and hit the transfer switch .

While I don't know what the OP has, typically, the manual lock-out for a transfer switch breaker is connected to a weatherproof box on the outside of the house. Flip open the cover and you see a male plug in a recess. The standard extension has a male plug that goes in the generator and the other end a female cord end - which plugs to that weather proof male plug. My guess is that is what the OP wants to make. At least I hope that's what he is talking about.

Yes

There is another problem here. The OP's generator plugs in with an L14-30 configuration - a 4 conductor twistlock. His proposal is to make an extension cord with an L13-30 - a 3 conductor twistlock. Th

I was going to cut the female end off the extension cord and wire an l14-30 female connector leaving one leg open.

 

[Larry Fine]

I may not have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I am a licensed Master Electrician.

First, an interlock is absolutely required. It must be physically impossible to send generator power back into the utility, even if you try. The best type of interlock is the kind that prevents the main breaker and the back-fed generator breaker from being on simultaneously.

Second is the gender of the inlet and the generator cord. Do not use a regular receptacle as a power inlet. A cord with male connectors on both ends is illegal and deadly. It's called a "suicide cord" for a reason. A generator cord is basically an extension cord.

Third, while I wouldn't do it, feeding only one line (bus (bus-bar)) of a panel will work, but you must turn off every two-pole breaker to prevent power from reaching the second bus through the 240v loads. There are single-load transfer switches with a 120v inlet.

Lemme know if you have any questions or want examples.

 

[Willsmotorcycle]

Sounds like you really just need a new generator like your neighbor, no need to be clever or be without power. The first time you wake up in the middle of the night and the gen is running your house, you’ll have that smile of satisfaction.

FWIW I did something similar and just as unsafe, cut the main off, wired the gen cord to the panel and flipped the few breakers I needed. I won’t do it again and don’t recommend it. Yes, it worked and then I waited to see when the neighbor's lights came back on. Never again.

 

[MidLife]

Sounds like you really just need a new generator ....

These are flying off the shelves.

https://www.harborfreight.com/13000-watt-tri-fuel-portable-generator-with-remote-start-and-co-secure-technology-epa-71386.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=12233769242&campaignid=12233769242&utm_content=165564664253&adsetid=165564664253&product=71386&store=323&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwg-24BhB_EiwA1ZOx8pmbbgTz3SkHCJJ8CknH5RJCAX1omQXseLuh2CHkBUfx-F1RrviAQhoCb4AQAvD_BwE

 

[TPadden]

Background

I know I am plugging into only a 15 amp circuit and would have limited power.

Thanks, Stan

Stan,

I think you should be used to limited power since you gave up motorcycle riding for pickle-ball and gourmet community cuisine a while ago.
Any plans for attending an event in 2025?

Tom

 

[v8-7]

Stan,

I think you should be used to limited power since you gave up motorcycle riding for pickle-ball and gourmet community cuisine a while ago.
Any plans for attending an event in 2025?

Tom

Don't forget Bingo !
I hope to make an event this year , or more ..

 

[v8-7]

I may not have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, but I am a licensed Master Electrician.

First, an interlock is absolutely required. It must be physically impossible to send generator power back into the utility, even if you try. The best type of interlock is the kind that prevents the main breaker and the back-fed generator breaker from being on simultaneously.

Second is the gender of the inlet and the generator cord. Do not use a regular receptacle as a power inlet. A cord with male connectors on both ends is illegal and deadly. It's called a "suicide cord" for a reason. A generator cord is basically an extension cord.

Third, while I wouldn't do it, feeding only one line (bus (bus-bar)) of a panel will work, but you must turn off every two-pole breaker to prevent power from reaching the second bus through the 240v loads. There are single-load transfer switches with a 120v inlet.

Lemme know if you have any questions or want examples.

Thanks, yes I have an interlock and the cord would be male to female.
I'm thinking the run would be too far ,, I'll measure it , but leaning heavily to using my own gen and just letting it idle until I need it .

 

[TPadden]

Don't forget Bingo !
I hope to make an event this year , or more ..

Miss you Stan... maybe another RanchSToc, or something closer? Hope you can plan an escape.

Tom

 

[Chris09]

If someone offered me a power connection during an outage I'd accept it but I would dedicate it to a couple loads that were physically disconnected from everything else.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

Thanks, yes I have an interlock and the cord would be male to female.
I'm thinking the run would be too far ,, I'll measure it , but leaning heavily to using my own gen and just letting it idle until I need it .

You most likely have a neutral floating transfer switch. Your neighbour most likely does as well as this is what is most commonly sold and installed. If so, this creates a ground loop which is against your national electrical code because it creates a potentially dangerous situation under the right conditions.

If this is only for occasional use I think that you are better off using your generator. If power outages are a common occurrence you might consider upgrading to a generator that has a remote start. Plug it in in advance of bad weather and if it is needed you push a button from the comfort of your home and it starts up. They can be had for under$1,000.00 now. Of course, if money is no object, a whole-house automatic gen-set is a nice way to go.

 

[Chris09]

there's a lot of danger in floating neutral two wire circuits. What actually happens with three wire cables that have two live conductors [and] a grounded conductor is that while the ground holds, life is good, however, the difference in current can, shall I say, cause a problem. And sometimes at the worst of times. Since I have to renew my FSR B R monday morning and take a day off work, I'll certainly be more in touch with all of that then, meanwhile the expression goes to which I advocate, remain grounded.

 

[Obo]

I have a whole home transfer switch, a Generlink, which we had installed a few years back by a electrical contractor, during a renovation. The utility company here now offers these for rental, which I wish that had at the time as they are not inexpensive!

I had to modify my portable generator to be used with transfer switch, which the factory explains how to do for CERTAIN CASES. The genset comes with the neutral bond to the frame.
My setup requires the neutral to NOT be bonded to the genset frame, due to the chance of electrocution at the genset from 2 grounds.

While it makes it safer when connected to the house, it makes the generator unsafe if used as a portable generator for any other use.

I have it clearly labeled on the genset in multiple places that it must not be used for stand alone use unless the modifications are undone.

If you use a generator with your house, please ensure it's connected properly, and to the correct genset. Consult a licensed, qualified electrician. It's all your stuff, and your life at stake.
No good to survive a storm and die by fire or electrocution as a result.