FortNine: Why Electric Bikes are More Dangerous than Motorcycles

Dallas has a bundle of these things. Not one rider seems to understand traffic laws, using the street, bike trail and sidewalk on a whim, jumping into traffic without looking, disobeying traffic signs/signals, even driving the wrong way. Little survival instinct is obvious. Shorts and sandals and the 'world owes me' attitude don't help much in the inevitable crash either. I see the behavior in the video all too frequently.
 
People with no real experience in riding bikes in traffic or any motorcycle training are hopping on and heading out. What could go wrong? All groups of road users do dumbass things, but being on a bicycle is about as vulnerable as you can get, and some of the e-bike stuff I've seen..

I still think they are a fantastic way for a lot of people to reduce the need for a car in a hilly place like my area, but I've been saying the last few years that people are going to get killed for lack of experience and skill. FWIW, I've been a road rider/racer/commuter/mountain biker the last 25 years, and aside from some luck, I'd like to think much of the reason I'm unscathed is limiting the amount of dumbass behavior I engage in.
 
Very good points.
As a bicycle shop owner, motorcycle and bicycle rider he got everything the way that I see it.
I have a number of bicycle customers that ride motorcycles that feel safer on a motorcycle because the motorcycle can flow equally with traffic.
 
I see a guy every day on an electicscooter going down my street with a bicycle helmet& sneakers.Snow, ice covered road.40 km/hr.I call them liquor- sickles, cause they don't require a licence, or insurance, or sense to operate.

First heard term liquor /sickle in North Carolina,seems to have migrated north in 15 years or so
 
F9 makes good points, including realizing there's not an easy fix and that we don't need more legislation. I've certainly seen many many ill advised practices/behaviors from bicyclists (both electric and human powered).

I didn't expect the proposition he makes at the end.
 
so now, what is the difference between and E-bike and an electric motorcycle? Both have electric motors. So therefor an electric motor cycle should be able to use the bike path as well as the E-bike using the street. Just asking. :biggrin:
 
ChucksKLRST said:
so now, what is the difference between and E-bike and an electric motorcycle? Both have electric motors. So therefor an electric motor cycle should be able to use the bike path as well as the E-bike using the street. Just asking. :biggrin:
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Pedals is part of that equation.
A sub part amongst the e-bikes is that if one can push a button to have the motor propel you without pedaling, the e-bike is limited to a top speed of 20 mph.
If pedaling is required to propel the bike, that is, electric assist only operates when pedaling, the top speed is limited to 28mph.
I don’t know how the lobbyist and law makers came to this conclusion and never got a clear answer, but it might be a safe guess that some physically fit bicyclist law makers realize they’d like a 28mph e-assist bike being offered while at the same time recognizing that someone that can barely pedal 10mph may also be the type that doesn’t have the reflexes to handle 28mph.
I sell bikes with Yamaha motors that are run through a program to give a very human feel to the assist regardless of assist level.
The gain in effort you put in is more directly equated with the gain in assist.
People first thing would turn the gain up all the way and take off half out of control.
We changed the introduction of test rides to start with no assist then add more as you go to experience the full range of capabilities (keep you from hurting yourself).

The gain on some e-bikes is way high right off the line, presumably because this will impress the customer with how powerful the motor is even when the assist level is set low.
I have seen a number of mature customers not buy bikes set up this way because it is unsettling.

After writing all that I went back and got the fun part of your post. :)
 
I am a cyclist and used to commute every day in Toronto. I stopped because the e-bikes were making it unsafe. I often see them driving at night with no lights. I do not comprehend how they are not considered "motorized" vehicles, and subject to the rules and licensing that others are. There are many that actually look identical to 250 sport bikes. What pisses me off the most is that these idiots are making a bad name for motorcyclists.

I'm gonna sit right down and write me a letter to my local MP.
 
Highway STar said:
I do not comprehend how they are not considered "motorized" vehicles, and subject to the rules and licensing that others are. There are many that actually look identical to 250 sport bikes.
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I agree completely. Here dedicated bicycle paths were off limits to motorized vehicles. I live next to one of the most used bike paths around so consequently there a lot of these things around as well. These things zip along it at twice the speed of the bicyclists endangering everyone. I have seen reports where parents ride with their children on the sidewalk because they view the bike path as being to dangerous due to the high speeds of these things. They zip along the bike paths, the pedestrian paths, the sidewalks, the streets. It seems they are allowed to go wherever they like.

It is required by law that motorcycles have all lights on at all times let alone after dark yet these things zip along the road at night in with the traffic with no lights on making them almost impossible to see.

In Quebec all vehicles must have winter rated tires on during winter months. This effectively terminates the riding season as motorcycles can not be on the road unless they also have these tires. Yet, these things are out all winter sliding all over the place on the ice and snow while they zip in, out and all around the traffic.

It seems like there is no consensus on what category of vehicle they are so they get ignored by everyone who is responsible for enforcing the rules of the road, and the sidewalks, and the bike paths. They seem to be left to their own devices to do whatever they wish with no consequences.
 
...more abrasive than an internet forum.
:rofl1: :rofl1: :rofl1: :rofl1: :rofl1: :rofl1: :rofl1:

I'm convinced that conspcuity lighting (and maybe some hi-viz) would have prevented some of those "see-through" crashes. But that can't be right since there are incidents of people hitting a few fire engines and trucks so accessory lighting is a universal waste of time right?

Education costs money and not a lot of people are willing to foot the bill. As it stands I think that's the only viable answer but it won't happen. Well at least not in sufficient numbers until there are enough deaths and is enough outrage. Then maybe somebody does something to recognize that any vehicle and driver/rider that mixes with traditional commute traffic needs some kind oversight. Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances.
 
Simple solution, may take some time but take away some of the laws that protect bikes and make them held responsible for things like blowing red lights and stop signs. Thing that they did that contributes to their accident. Then mandate insurance. After a while insurance companies will tell lawmakers what is needed. Don't worry it should not be expensive.
 
The aftermarket has a plethora of things that can turn a run of the mill ebike into something that rivals a full fledged motorcycle. These things are causing quite a bit of issues on mountain bike paths. Here in Canada, the legal limit for an ebike motor is 500W. I think it is 750W in the US. You can buy 1500+W aftermarket motors and all the things needed to convert the lower powered bikes.
I ride one with the 500W motor and find it more than adequate for what I do. Great for getting up that last, long, steep hill on the way home after a day of taking my grandson out for a day in the playgrounds. He rides in a cart that hitches to the back axle.
 
ebikes are as dangerous as the idiots riding them.

If you don't wear protective equipment, don't obey the rules of the road and ride like a fool then, over time, the odds will catch up with you and you'll have an accident. In general, ebikes are faster than regular bikes and the accident you have will be more severe, just plain physics.
 
Now let's get started on the rental Lime mini wheel scooters.....worst vehicles and behavior I have ever seen......
 
and make them held responsible for things like blowing red lights and stop signs.
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The law here was changed not so long ago, based on pressure from bicyclist lobbies I presume, so that bicyclists no longer are required by law to stop at stop signs as they were previously. They are supposed to proceed only when it is safe but they just blow right through them. It didn't change anything really because they never stopped when they were supposed to either.

There were discussions about red lights as well. They were discussing changing the law so that bicyclists didn't have to wait at red lights either. They would only have to stop and then proceed through the light if it was safe to do so. I don't know what was decided about that but it would be an improvement if bicyclists did this because they were just blowing through the red lights as well.
 
I'm a bicyclist. I hate it when these bikes blow by me going up a hill! I'm already hurting bad enough climbing the hill and then these guys go by and add insult to injury!
As far as regulating them, I say let the laws of nature and the school of hard knocks sort them out. Sometimes stupid hurts, sometimes stupid even kills.
 
Andrew Shadow said:
The law here was changed not so long ago, based on pressure from bicyclist lobbies I presume, so that bicyclists no longer are required by law to stop at stop signs as they were previously. They are supposed to proceed only when it is safe but they just blow right through them. It didn't change anything really because they never stopped when they were supposed to either.

There were discussions about red lights as well. They were discussing changing the law so that bicyclists didn't have to wait at red lights either. They would only have to stop and then proceed through the light if it was safe to do so. I don't know what was decided about that but it would be an improvement if bicyclists did this because they were just blowing through the red lights as well.
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It's not just cyclist that blow through red lights. All types of vehicle operators do it. However, it won't take long to cure someone riding a 15lb vehicle from blowing through red lights and stop signs. One 3500lb car can fix that permanently.
 
st11ray said:
It's not just cyclist that blow through red lights. All types of vehicle operators do it. However, it won't take long to cure someone riding a 15lb vehicle from blowing through red lights and stop signs. One 3500lb car can fix that permanently.
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Agreed, but it is not common at all, at least around here, to see vehicles going through red lights and stop signs because the fines are to steep. It is no where near the frequency that it is with bicyclists and pedestrians from what I winess as unscientific as that might be.

Government policies and relentless advertising campaigns by them here have emboldened bicyclists and pedestrians in to adopting the attitude that they always have the right of way and priority. It has nothing to do with someones position on the benefits and the place of walking and cycling in modern urban society. It is simply not true that they always have the right of way and this attitude leads to more dangerous behaviour and will lead to more accidents and injuries. As I drive around, it is common to see an older person look both ways before they begin to cross a roadway just as most older people were taught to do by their parents. The younger people are the complete opposite. I watch them as they just walk or ride across the street regardless of the traffic situation, often without even looking. The attitude seems to be "I have the right of way- it is up to the traffic to stop for me". I believe that this is because they have been told since they were toddlers that as pedestrians they always have the right of way. They act this same way when they are on their bicycles. They do not of course and they might pay a high price for that mistaken belief. The fact that there seems to be virtually no enforcement at all with regards to pedestrians and cyclists further encourages, or at least does nothing to discourage, this behaviour.

Regardless of who has the right of way, it seems to me to only be logical that, as a person on foot or bicycle, it is in your own best interest to be aware and stay out of the way of the vehicles that are around you. If a person doesn't, as you have written, one mistake might well cure them of that behaviour.
 
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