Clutch slave cylinder leak

Joined
Aug 30, 2020
Messages
9
Location
Georgetown, TN
Bike
2009 GL1800, 2000 ST
Hi folks, New member here. I recently purchased a 2000 ST1100 and noticed recently that the clutch slave cylinder is leaking. I replaced both the inner and outer seals and the gasket but the little bugger is still intent on leaking ever so slightly.

There appears to be a weep hole at the bottom of the slave unit. Is that correct? If so any ideas on what may be causing this leak?

Thanks in advance for any ideas. BTW , my other ride is a 2009 GL1800 ABS

Dadztoy
 
There are only two things that can leak out that weep-hole:
  • brake fluid (which these bikes use for the clutch hydraulic system);
  • engine oil.
If it is brake fluid then the master cylinder on your left-hand handlebar will be slowly dropping as the fluid leaks out past the seals in the clutch slave cylinder.

If it is engine oil, then the seal between the cavity behind the clutch slave and the interior of the engine case is leaking and your engine oil level will slowly drop as the leak continues.

One key thing: DO NOT plug that weep-hole with JB Weld or bubblegum or anything else. If you do that, eventually the leaking fluid could get into the non-leaking fluid (whichever it is) and that will cause problems with either your engine or your clutch operation, depending on which way things are leaking.

My best guess is that your attempted re-build of the clutch slave cylinder didn't work and that fluid is brake fluid. One way to test it would be to put a few drops on something that is painted (and that you do NOT care about) - brake fluid is extremely quick to dissolve paint. Do NOT get it in your eyes or on any surface about which you care, like say....your fuel tank.

Please keep us posted!

Pete
 
One way to test it would be to put a few drops on something that is painted (and that you do NOT care about) - brake fluid is extremely quick to dissolve paint. Do NOT get it in your eyes or on any surface about which you care, like say....your fuel tank.
Or...drop the offending liquid in some clean water. Brake fluid will disperse in water, engine oil will float to the top.
 
When you put the slave piston in, did you make sure that the flared open end of the seal on the piston went in first and it didn't invert itself when seating it in the bore ?
You have to ease the lips into the opening gently, brake fluid helps. If you push before the lips are inside, it will turn itself inside out like an umbrella in a storm, and will not seal properly.
1604617491707.png
Shown in the picture - piston on the right facing the bore / housing on the left.

Sorry I don't have a more detailed picture - this one is about 20 years old.
 
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Thanks for the quick responses guys.
I replaced parts 15, 13, and 7 during the rebuild process but the little bugger is still leaking. Guess I need to pull it off again (ugh) and see what the story is... When I bleed the slave, it seems like it's sucking air from somewhere as there are an awful lot if air bubbles appearing in the line. I did replace the standard bleed valve with a speed bleeder, but that has sealant on it's threads so it shouldn't be leaking from there.
Screenshot (3).png


The slave mounting bolt hear the exhaust is a real bugger to get at, and I had to remove the exhaust heat shield and loosen the headers to get to it. I'm almost at the point where I just might replace the entire slave unit.

Oh, one other thing. When I first test rode the bike, the clutch didn't engage until nearly all the way out. The previous owner assured me there was nothing wrong with it and was characteristic of the ST's. Call me stupid I guess, but I figured a bleed or rebuild would take care of that issue... Looks like I'm going to have to pull it off again...

Any further advice will be appreciated...

Dadztoy
 
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If you decide to replace the slave cylinder, shop, around for it. I've had luck at partsfish on prices. Item #6 : https://www.partsfish.com/oemparts/a/hon/506c1797f870023420a2e73a/clutch-cover
For $85.

When removing the slave cylinder, loosen and remove the screws holding it. Use an open end wrench on the screw blocked by the header. A pain I know. When it is as loose as possible, use a pry bar, of your choice, to hold the tube away from the screw. You may need help. There isn't much left holding it in place. Same thing for re-assembly. I thought about shortening the screw after I put it back together. At that point I couldn't tell how much it needed shortened and if was possible.
 
Some things to consider which may help

Air bubbles
If you are using a vacuum pump, sucking air is a common issue. It doesn't suck air into the hydraulic system, but It sucks air from the outside world and past the threads of the bleed valve, and into the tube as the fluid emerges. PTFE tape wrapped around the threads helps to reduce this, but it is difficult to eliminate. It tends to be a steady stream of small bubbles. I use a vacuum pump, but always finish off with the teaditional method, with the help of a non return bleed valve in the tube.

If you are bleeding using the traditional pump the lever technique - there is nowhere for air to get into the system, fluid and air is being pushed out, not sucking in, so the bubbles must be air in the lines or the slave. Keep bleeding.

Fluid Leak
Does pumping the lever result in more bfluid coming out of the weep hole ? If so, your seal on the piston is shot, or it has inverted. When I did mine, I found that both seals had turned to a thick black paste. They scraped off like butter from the fridge! The bike had 28000 miles on it and was 4 years old, and had been sitting for a while, unused.

Clutch lever
Oh, one other thing. When I first test rode the bike, the clutch didn't engage until nearly all the way out.
If the clutch didn't engage until the last part of the stroke of the lever - that sounds like the push rod in the clutch lever is not seated properly inside the hole in the bush in the lever. Remove the locknut on the clutch lever, and then unscrew and remove the pivot bolt. As you remove the clutch lever, hold the brass bush in position. nb - your bush may not be brass.

1604637215388.png 1604673836297.png


The diagram shows the part of the master cylinder internals. #1 is the pushrod which emerges from the rubber boot, both of which you can see once the lever is removed. #2 is the brass bush that slots into a hole in the clutch lever. The hole in the side of the bush is drawn in the diagram, but it is a blind hole. It doesn't go all of the way through. It looks like the image on the right. The end of the pushrod MUST fit inside that hole - so the diagram is drawn so you can see the hole, but in fact it should be turned 180 degrees to face the pushrod. If it doesn't, the pushrod will always be putting pressure in the slave piston and it will never properly engage. It will only start to bite at the end of its stroke as you release the lever - which is what you described. If you hold the bush in position as you remove the lever, you will be able to tell if this was your problem.

Anyway, take it out, clean it up and on the circular end of the bush, with a felt pen, draw a line to the edge to indicate the direction of the hole. A smear of grease in the hole and bush (rubber grease if you have it, but otherwise normal grease, but you dint want it to cine into contact with the rubber boot. Put it back into the clutch lever, with the circular face with your line on it facing up. Rotate it so that the hole is facing towards the plunger check the hole visually, and check your line. Then offer the lever assembly to the bracket and ensure the pushrod goes into the hole. You cant see it, so you have to feel it. If you are not sure, try doing it with the hole facing the wrong way first, so that you know what it feels like when it is wrong.

Insert the pivot bolt. Just snug it up. I think it is 2nm, but check that figure. It is not a clamping bolt. Put the locknut on the underside and tighten that to the correct torque while holding the pivot bolt with a screwdriver.
 
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Thanks for the quick responses guys.
I replaced parts 15, 13, and 7 during the rebuild process but the little bugger is still leaking. Guess I need to pull it off again (ugh) and see what the story is... When I bleed the slave, it seems like it's sucking air from somewhere as there are an awful lot if air bubbles appearing in the line. I did replace the standard bleed valve with a speed bleeder, but that has sealant on it's threads so it shouldn't be leaking from there.
Screenshot (3).png


The slave mounting bolt hear the exhaust is a real bugger to get at, and I had to remove the exhaust heat shield and loosen the headers to get to it. I'm almost at the point where I just might replace the entire slave unit.

Oh, one other thing. When I first test rode the bike, the clutch didn't engage until nearly all the way out. The previous owner assured me there was nothing wrong with it and was characteristic of the ST's. Call me stupid I guess, but I figured a bleed or rebuild would take care of that issue... Looks like I'm going to have to pull it off again...

Any further advice will be appreciated...

Dadztoy
Item number 10 is probably the culprit if fluid is coming out of the bottom weep hole. Clean up the cylinder at the same time.
 
There might be some useful information in there for you.
You reckon ? That is brilliant Michael. Ye gods, you must have been bored stuck out there in the desert ! Thinks...... What shall I do today ? Everywhere is locked down, I'm trapped in this hotel, I'll be shot if I move anywhere .... I know, I'll replace my clutch slave. The heat would do that to me too, I think.

And just to back you up in case doubters think you can get a tool in there - yes all of that stuff does need to come off to remove the clutch housing. It is actually possible to remove the problem bolt and housing without shifting the exhaust out of the way. But it is impossible to get it back in again.

I think it was one of the very first jobs I did on my return to motorcycling in 2000. I documented my efforts and posted them on my website - just as a record. I went back to look at them and decided not to share the link in this thread. A pathetic effort from me. I'm glad I didn't - your post says it all !
 
Dad, as described already there could be some wear so check it out, but they do bite when they're well out, they all do that sir. I think some may have tried adjustable levers and different masters and had mixed results.
Good luck.
Upt'North.
 
"And just to back you up in case doubters think you can get a tool in there - yes all of that stuff does need to come off to remove the clutch housing. It is actually possible to remove the problem bolt and housing without shifting the exhaust out of the way. But it is impossible to get it back in again."

As mentioned in my earlier post (#6), I took the slave cylinder off and put it back on without removing anything but the 3 screws. I guess it's good to be lucky.

After going back and looking at a previous thread, others were able to remove the slave cylinder also. https://www.st-owners.com/forums/threads/clutch-slave-cylinder.173982/
 
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Just read Michael's post in entirety. A lot of good info in that very detailed post... I'm going to pick up a cheap set (Harbor Freight) s type box wrenches and grind the 8mm end to a thinner thickness in hopes of getting it to fit on the bolt near the exhaust pipes. Perhaps then after loosening, I can nudge the exhaust pipes a bit and remove the offending bolt... It's worth a try anyway...
 
That certainly worked for me. Putting it back in the same way was what stumped me. Bear in mind that each bolt has a hollow dowel in place in the bolt hole. It locates half in the crankshaft side of the hole, half in the Slave housing hole. The housing needs to be lifted away from the crankcase further than you might think. I cant remember if they actually get in the way. I know that I damaged one of them when trying to remove it. It will remain in the half that has oxidised the most. Whichever half they are in, leave them there. You can see them in place on sections 7 and 8 of Michael's post that you have read through.
 
I don't get it... never had a problem removing an ST1100 slave nor putting it back in...

IMG_20200926_113410.jpg

BTW: the brake fluid the system is filled with is hygroscopic, hence a special brake assembly paste is required for lubricating the seal during installation.
 
I don't get it... never had a problem removing an ST1100 slave nor putting it back in...


IMG_20200926_113410.jpg

Me either. It took about an hour to remove, clean up the area a little, install the new slave and bleed it. No hurries or problems.
 
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Maybe its a year thing. The one I had problems with was a 1996 standard. I never removed the clutch slave from my 2000ABS version.
A sample of one hardly represents conclusive proof.
 
...the brake fluid the system is filled with is hygroscopic, hence a special brake assembly paste is required for lubricating the seal during installation.
Hi Martin:

I have always just used brake fluid to lubricate seals within the brake system. Are you aware of any disadvantage to doing that, or any advantage to be gained from using a special brake assembly paste?

Michael
 
Maybe its a year thing. The one I had problems with was a 1996 standard. I never removed the clutch slave from my 2000ABS version.
A sample of one hardly represents conclusive proof.
I suspect it's due to the slight variability in the bending/shaping of the exhaust pipes.
 
BTW: the brake fluid the system is filled with is hygroscopic, hence a special brake assembly paste is required for lubricating the seal during installation.
I too have used brake fluid as a lubricant for new brake (caliper) seals. Now I have an 8 oz can of silicone paste that I use, for me its a lifetime supply.
 
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