Clutch issues

[Rich]

Hi, I'm new to these Honda ST1100's, picked up my first one last week, 2002, 52,000miles.

Ive noticed when riding it that the clutch drags a little bit when hot and that it is hard to locate neutral when stopped.

When i'm filtering in slow traffic it can feel a bit juddery when warm, any ideas or suggestions please.

Thank you

 

[Oldbikefixr]

The clutch itself is probably not the problem given the bike's mileage, but, it could be. Try a few things first.
Flush out the clutch (and brake) fluids...they are likely overdue.
Remove the clutch lever and inspect the bolt and bushing for wear. Replace whatever is worn/loose.
Change the engine oil/filter with bike specific oil. Some non-motorcycle oils are not clutch friendly.
Check your shifter linkage for binding or corrosion. Remove, clean, lube, reinstall.
That's the inexpensive checks.
If your problem still persists, it could be your slave cylinder and/or the clutch plates. Save those for last.
None of this is difficult, removing and replacing the plasticwork will likely be the long task. While you work....inspect what you can see for issues.

 

[Jim Van]

How far does the end of the clutch lever move before resistance is felt ? I have only about a half inch. Much more than that indicates a problem with the master or slave cylinder. I would look at the slave first. You may be surprised at the amount of gunk that is built up in the slave.

 

[Upt' North]

+1 OBF.
Clutch bleed first, and check all the wear at the lever. The bushing referred to is what the push rod runs in. They can and do wear out. If not then delve deeper.
Hope it helps.
Upt'North.

 

[red one]

Mine acts a little differently when the oil is hot or oil needs to be changed. You have a 52K mile 16 year old bike....so it probably ain't going to shift like new.

 

[Bikeric]

Welcome to the Forum from deepest Cornwall! Hope you get your bike sorted - the advice and support available here is world class.

 

[Rich]

Hi Rich

Congratulations on the new-to-you 1100. 52,000 miles isn't that many for these wonderful beasts.

First thing to do is to check that the clutch has been properly bled. Also, where the clutch slave cylinder is located - the bump on the front of the crankshaft casing - there is a small drain hole which allows any fluid seepage to escape to the tarmac. If it is blocked, it can allow pressure to build up and stop the clutch from dis-engaging.

Failing that - a clutch master and slave service kit may be in order. I bought my first 1100 2nd hand and it had been stood for a long while, basking in old fluid. The seals on both had turned to something like a very thick grease. Replacing both improved the clutch feel and behaviour immediately.

I did a write up at the time and put it here.

Just for illustration, the kits I bought were these. These were for a 1996 ST1100 - so you'd need to check the correct parts for your model.

View attachment 233330 View attachment 233331 View attachment 233332

For speed, I tend to use FowlersParts. Its difficult to get parts much cheaper - It seems that Honda has all suppliers quoting the same figures - although DavidSilver might have something better - since your model is outside Honda's 10 year rule. But checking whether or not they are in stock may be more important.

Thanks for the info, Think my Saturday job will be checking and bleeding the clutch as wellas changing the engine oil.

 

[Rich]

Here's my .02:

Oil quality is definitely going to make a difference. A wet clutch needs good oil to work properly. I won't jump into the "proper oil/change interval" debate (there are many opinions, all good) but I will tell you what I do. I've owned several classic/vintage Honda V4s. I've run Shell Rotella T4 in all of them, with few exceptions. Change at 3000 miles, along with a new filter. Costs $20, takes one hour.

Of course the mechanical condition of the clutch and MC themselves. Might as well start at the top with quality Dot4, bleed down the front brakes and clutch until all the fluid is clear and new, top to bottom. This needs to be done anyway, and of all the used bikes I've bought, pretty much ALL of them had sad fluid in the MC's.

Finally, the condition of the clutch line itself. I just replaced my clutch and front brake lines with Galfers, the difference in the clutch (and brake!) action was immediate and noticeable, probably because more of the pressure is used to move the clutch when the line doesn't expand, as 25 year old clutch lines are want to do. The clutch line is pretty easy to do, and most likely you still have the OEMs on there.

Good luck my friend! Keep us advised.

Im going to use Silkolene 10w 40 Semi synthetic and a High flo HF303 Racing Oil Filter

 

[CYYJ]

Hi Rich:

Welcome to our forum, and congratulations on your purchase of the ST 1100.

I have a 2001 ST 1100, and presently have exactly the same problem you do - "the clutch drags a little bit when hot and that it is hard to locate neutral when stopped." The only difference between you and me is that I have owned my ST 1100 since new, and mine has about 120,000 miles on it.

I first noticed this problem developing with my motorcycle about 2 years ago, and I asked my dealer to rebuild the clutch master cylinder (the assembly on the left handlebar) and flush out the fluid. They did that, but it didn't solve the problem.

As I understand it, there are three major component groups involved in operation of the clutch:

1) The master cylinder,
2) The slave cylinder, and;
3) The hose that connects them.

Item 1 on my moto has already been rebuilt. When I next get access to my moto (it is in Madrid at the moment, and I live in Canada), I am going to replace the entire slave cylinder assembly and also replace the hose. It's easy to get all the parts necessary to rebuild the master cylinder or to replace the slave cylinder, but the hose - Honda part number 22900-MAJ-G00 - is no longer available from Honda. Earlier today, I wrote to Galfer, a well-known manufacturer of brake and clutch lines, to inquire if they can supply a replacement clutch line as a stand-alone part (rather than as part of a kit that includes all hydraulic lines on the bike). Once I hear from them, I'll come back to this discussion thread and post the result.

Below is a picture of the parts needed to replace the clutch slave assembly. From the top, going clockwise, the parts consist of a clutch slave cylinder replacement kit (22860-ML7-010), two gaskets that go between the right hand cylinder exhaust ports and the right hand exhaust headers (18291-MN4-920), an oil seal that fits just aft of the clutch slave cylinder (91204-MB0-013, not sure if I am going to need this, but I bought it just in case), a few copper crush washers (a generic part available from any moto dealer, but if you want the OEM Honda ones, which are terribly expensive, the part number is 90545-300-000), and a gasket that goes around the replacement slave cylinder (22862-MGJ-D00).

I'm pretty sure the parts I need for my 2001 are the same part numbers as you would need for your 2002, but double-check. Total cost is about USD $70. The two gaskets for the exhaust pipes on the right hand side will probably be needed because others have reported that it is necessary to loosen the right hand exhaust headers to move the exhaust plumbing out of the way to get access to the bolts on the clutch slave cylinder.

I'm choosing to replace the clutch slave cylinder sight unseen, rather than consider rebuilding it, because all the photos I have seen of a defective clutch slave cylinder show evidence of corrosion within the assembly. If the bike you purchased originated in the UK, you probably have corrosion on the outside as well, because the UK seems to be a very corrosive environment relative to the European continent or North America.

As for the hose - I'm going to proactively replace that because a number of other riders of early 2000 STs have reported that the hose itself is half to blame for our clutch problems, this because it becomes a bit elastic with age and swells when pressure is applied. This means that the full pressure created by the master cylinder doesn't get applied to the slave cylinder.

Hope this information helps you.

Michael

ST 1100 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement Parts

 

[Rich]

Thanks to everyone for all the info, so I've now purchased a steel braided replacement clutch line as well, I think this may well be the problem, as there is no slack in the lever, it operates smoothly and is fine when cold. It just seems to get worse when in traffic and using the clutch lever a lot. I'll let you all know after the weekend how I get on.

 

[Rich]

OK, quick update, removed the clutch slave cylinder, used a long 8mm socket for the nut behind the downpipe, found loads of gunk around housing and inside cylinder, cleaned it all up, fitted new seals refitted and bleed the whole system through with 1/2 litre of brake fluid. Works like new now happy days.

 

[spenner]

Hi, I'm new to these Honda ST1100's, picked up my first one last week, 2002, 52,000miles.

Ive noticed when riding it that the clutch drags a little bit when hot and that it is hard to locate neutral when stopped.

When i'm filtering in slow traffic it can feel a bit juddery when warm, any ideas or suggestions please.

Thank you

hi did you get yours sorted has mine is doing exactly the same, 47000 miles been stud inside 8 years looks like its had slave cylinder and new lines in past change fluid but drags and inconsistent, but lever feels good

 

[SMSW]

hi did you get yours sorted has mine is doing exactly the same, 47000 miles been stud inside 8 years looks like its had slave cylinder and new lines in past change fluid but drags and inconsistent, but lever feels good

This is a 6 year old thread. Check the dates top left of each post. You might not get a response from Rich. But then again, you might. Reread Post #2 - @Oldbikefixr pretty much listed everything that can be done easily.

 

[ghockey72]

Hi Rich:

Welcome to our forum, and congratulations on your purchase of the ST 1100.

I have a 2001 ST 1100, and presently have exactly the same problem you do - "the clutch drags a little bit when hot and that it is hard to locate neutral when stopped." The only difference between you and me is that I have owned my ST 1100 since new, and mine has about 120,000 miles on it.

I first noticed this problem developing with my motorcycle about 2 years ago, and I asked my dealer to rebuild the clutch master cylinder (the assembly on the left handlebar) and flush out the fluid. They did that, but it didn't solve the problem.

As I understand it, there are three major component groups involved in operation of the clutch:

1) The master cylinder,
2) The slave cylinder, and;
3) The hose that connects them.

Item 1 on my moto has already been rebuilt. When I next get access to my moto (it is in Madrid at the moment, and I live in Canada), I am going to replace the entire slave cylinder assembly and also replace the hose. It's easy to get all the parts necessary to rebuild the master cylinder or to replace the slave cylinder, but the hose - Honda part number 22900-MAJ-G00 - is no longer available from Honda. Earlier today, I wrote to Galfer, a well-known manufacturer of brake and clutch lines, to inquire if they can supply a replacement clutch line as a stand-alone part (rather than as part of a kit that includes all hydraulic lines on the bike). Once I hear from them, I'll come back to this discussion thread and post the result.

Below is a picture of the parts needed to replace the clutch slave assembly. From the top, going clockwise, the parts consist of a clutch slave cylinder replacement kit (22860-ML7-010), two gaskets that go between the right hand cylinder exhaust ports and the right hand exhaust headers (18291-MN4-920), an oil seal that fits just aft of the clutch slave cylinder (91204-MB0-013, not sure if I am going to need this, but I bought it just in case), a few copper crush washers (a generic part available from any moto dealer, but if you want the OEM Honda ones, which are terribly expensive, the part number is 90545-300-000), and a gasket that goes around the replacement slave cylinder (22862-MGJ-D00).

I'm pretty sure the parts I need for my 2001 are the same part numbers as you would need for your 2002, but double-check. Total cost is about USD $70. The two gaskets for the exhaust pipes on the right hand side will probably be needed because others have reported that it is necessary to loosen the right hand exhaust headers to move the exhaust plumbing out of the way to get access to the bolts on the clutch slave cylinder.

I'm choosing to replace the clutch slave cylinder sight unseen, rather than consider rebuilding it, because all the photos I have seen of a defective clutch slave cylinder show evidence of corrosion within the assembly. If the bike you purchased originated in the UK, you probably have corrosion on the outside as well, because the UK seems to be a very corrosive environment relative to the European continent or North America.

As for the hose - I'm going to proactively replace that because a number of other riders of early 2000 STs have reported that the hose itself is half to blame for our clutch problems, this because it becomes a bit elastic with age and swells when pressure is applied. This means that the full pressure created by the master cylinder doesn't get applied to the slave cylinder.

Hope this information helps you.

Michael

ST 1100 Clutch Slave Cylinder Replacement Parts

curious what solves this on this particular bike, mine is 91 1100 and same issue, i've so far done rebuild kit on master and upped to braided line to the slave but still acting same. I bought as suggested by others a new slave and hope honda will install and problem solved.

 

[Andrew Shadow]

curious what solves this on this particular bike

The slave cylinder is a possible cause if it is badly corroded and/or full of crud. If it is, the slave cylinder piston may not be able to move as freely or far as it needs to. If the piston is jamming before it achieves its full travel the clutch is not being completely disengaged. This has the same effect as not pulling the clutch lever in far enough.

 

[ghockey72]

Update...got my bike back yesterday, did 20 miles in much stop and go on very very hot humid day. Before replacing slave cylinder with suggested Oberon brand (guy at honda said very nice slave you bought) this kinda situation would land me on the side of the road waiting for bike to cool down before clutch would engage again. Xing finger so far so good...clutch feels strong and engages far out on handle whereas before it would only start out that way then quickly engage lower and lower and lower till failure and get softer and softer. So long story longer...I believe it was a crudded up slave or the black part that surrounds the push rod that for some reason would act up.

 

[Sunday Rider]

Update...got my bike back yesterday, did 20 miles in much stop and go on very very hot humid day. Before replacing slave cylinder with suggested Oberon brand (guy at honda said very nice slave you bought) this kinda situation would land me on the side of the road waiting for bike to cool down before clutch would engage again. Xing finger so far so good...clutch feels strong and engages far out on handle whereas before it would only start out that way then quickly engage lower and lower and lower till failure and get softer and softer. So long story longer...I believe it was a crudded up slave or the black part that surrounds the push rod that for some reason would act up.

What did he say about the condition of the slave cylinder he took off. Is the push rod you are referring to, the one actuated by the lever or slave cylinder. Glad you got the bike working again and posting your findings.

 

[ghockey72]

What did he say about the condition of the slave cylinder he took off. Is the push rod you are referring to, the one actuated by the lever or slave cylinder. Glad you got the bike working again and posting your findings.

I believe what he was referring to was the pushrod down in the slave area. I was unaware of any other push rod . I had previously had them do a master rebuild kit I bought and brought to them as well as had a stainless hose line installed b/c someone on the forum mentioned theirs was old and stretched out so didn't work when clutch hydraulic pressure got to high. I believe based on everything i read on these forums I had done from least expensive to most expensive fix