Has anyone tried balancing beads for their tires? Going to be installing new tires (Dunlop road smart 3) soon and was thinking about trying some of the balancing beads. Hopefully someone has tried them and can offer their thoughts.
Balancing beads for St1100
- Thread starter 1996St1100
- Start date
I have used Dynabeads for some years now, everything from ST1100's to my current NT1100, including a 1250RT and a few other Honda's!
I used the classic car beads, over here they sell at a better price than those for M/C's!
Smoother ride, more even tyre wear and easy enough to swap over to next set of tyres with the correct tools, a small vacuum cleaner being one of those!
Two ounces in each tyre and no need for any balance weights!
Yes, I recommend them!
You can still do puncture repairs with wiggly worms, just do it with the puncture hole as near to 90 degrees from the bottom, use you rubber cement liberally and insert the repair as normal, then leave it for 5-10 minutes to allow the glue to set before inflating and cutting off excess worm!
This has worked for me, you still get a few beads sticking to the glue on the inside but the tyre remains balanced due to the dynamic nature of the beads.
HTH
I used the classic car beads, over here they sell at a better price than those for M/C's!
Smoother ride, more even tyre wear and easy enough to swap over to next set of tyres with the correct tools, a small vacuum cleaner being one of those!
Two ounces in each tyre and no need for any balance weights!
Yes, I recommend them!
You can still do puncture repairs with wiggly worms, just do it with the puncture hole as near to 90 degrees from the bottom, use you rubber cement liberally and insert the repair as normal, then leave it for 5-10 minutes to allow the glue to set before inflating and cutting off excess worm!
This has worked for me, you still get a few beads sticking to the glue on the inside but the tyre remains balanced due to the dynamic nature of the beads.
HTH
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I put balancing beads in my 1996 Honda Shadow 1100's tires (well actually in the tubes; that bike uses inner tubes) . It didn't do much good.
I think most of the bike's vibration comes from the engine, not the wheels or tires.
(PS--my model is the one with the single pin crankshaft.)
I think most of the bike's vibration comes from the engine, not the wheels or tires.
(PS--my model is the one with the single pin crankshaft.)
Thanks for letting me know about your experience with them. I've used them in a dodge dually 3500 with no issues just never in a bike. I think I'll give them a try in the bike.
I've used them. They work well.
Chris
Chris
That's all I use for balancing my tires.
I had to go to them, once I lost my tire changer (@Byron). He moved out of state and even after some great training, I still couldn't get a good balance using the static method.
To insert the beads, I measure them out, place them in some food plastic wrap then throw the wad into the tire. After a few miles the wad breaks up and then the beads go to work.
The beads do make a mess when removing them, but I found after breaking the bead, a small vacuum does a great job of pulling them out of the tires.
I had to go to them, once I lost my tire changer (@Byron). He moved out of state and even after some great training, I still couldn't get a good balance using the static method.
To insert the beads, I measure them out, place them in some food plastic wrap then throw the wad into the tire. After a few miles the wad breaks up and then the beads go to work.
The beads do make a mess when removing them, but I found after breaking the bead, a small vacuum does a great job of pulling them out of the tires.
I got some ordered yesterday. thanks for your response.
Thank you for your experience. I ordered some yesterday. I'm going to give them a try.
At the shop I manage that is all we use are balancing beads. Have been using them in my 94 ST1100 with the Michelins. No issues and very smooth at all speeds even those above 85+mph.
Gonna give them a try. Beads should be here tomorrow. Thanks for the info.
<<<<<<<<<<<<DON'T READ!!!>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(A dissenting opinion that's just opinion without facts from someone who's opinion isn't going to change. I should have just deleted this but after taking time to write it...)
Ok, sorry, but I've been seeing these off and on for years and just don't get it.
I've never used "balancing" beads over the last 40 years of riding and don't see the need. I also don't understand how they work or why they would work.
My quick search for articles on them didn't come up with any Myth Busters type serious investigation but only "works for me" type testimonials heavy with "well I paid for it so it must be working" bias.
As I understand it, these beads just roll around and "naturally distribute" themselves. Sounds like unsubstantiated snake-oil magic. All the beads are going to be piled up in the bottom of your tire when stopped and need to redistribute each time you start up.
One of the selling sites says:
Not suitable for all vehicles: They may not work well on lighter vehicles with soft suspensions due to the beads not redistributing quickly enough.
Potential for initial vibrations: When first installed, you might experience temporary vibrations as the beads settle into their optimal positions.
Add that to this...
How they work: When the tire rotates, the beads move around inside, naturally distributing themselves to counteract imbalances in the tire and wheel assembly.
...and it seems they would always gather to the bottom when you stop, need to re-distribute when you start and have "temporary vibrations" for a bit with possibility that your "lighter vehicle with soft suspension" may not get it working well because "beads not redistributing quickly enough."
Lot of indication there from a company selling the beads so they can say "hey, we said it may not work for you."
I'm not trying to start a war of opinions here. If you can, point me to a scientific study or some worthy data to show me they work. I did toss a weight once during a race at Road America (Elkhart Lake, Wi) and suffered a distinct vibration down each straight, so I know balanced tires are important. That would have been a great time to toss in some beads and see if the vibration abated.
Has anyone done that?
1. Run a bike with balanced tire. Observed a smooth ride.
2. Removed the tire weights. Observed an unbalanced definitive vibration.
3. Put in balancing beads. Observed a return to smooth ride.
Without a report from a trusted source or doing it myself (will never happen) I'll just continue with aligning the tire's dot appropriately and adding a minimal weight when/if needed.
Actually, strike that, even with a report from a trusted source, I'll still do a static balance. I know that works and I don't need to buy beads or clean up beads. Can't see how any minor possible benefit in tire life or improved mileage or smoother ride would be worth the hassle.
Later,
Kent Larson in Minnesota
(A dissenting opinion that's just opinion without facts from someone who's opinion isn't going to change. I should have just deleted this but after taking time to write it...)
Ok, sorry, but I've been seeing these off and on for years and just don't get it.
I've never used "balancing" beads over the last 40 years of riding and don't see the need. I also don't understand how they work or why they would work.
My quick search for articles on them didn't come up with any Myth Busters type serious investigation but only "works for me" type testimonials heavy with "well I paid for it so it must be working" bias.
As I understand it, these beads just roll around and "naturally distribute" themselves. Sounds like unsubstantiated snake-oil magic. All the beads are going to be piled up in the bottom of your tire when stopped and need to redistribute each time you start up.
One of the selling sites says:
Not suitable for all vehicles: They may not work well on lighter vehicles with soft suspensions due to the beads not redistributing quickly enough.
Potential for initial vibrations: When first installed, you might experience temporary vibrations as the beads settle into their optimal positions.
Add that to this...
How they work: When the tire rotates, the beads move around inside, naturally distributing themselves to counteract imbalances in the tire and wheel assembly.
...and it seems they would always gather to the bottom when you stop, need to re-distribute when you start and have "temporary vibrations" for a bit with possibility that your "lighter vehicle with soft suspension" may not get it working well because "beads not redistributing quickly enough."
Lot of indication there from a company selling the beads so they can say "hey, we said it may not work for you."
I'm not trying to start a war of opinions here. If you can, point me to a scientific study or some worthy data to show me they work. I did toss a weight once during a race at Road America (Elkhart Lake, Wi) and suffered a distinct vibration down each straight, so I know balanced tires are important. That would have been a great time to toss in some beads and see if the vibration abated.
Has anyone done that?
1. Run a bike with balanced tire. Observed a smooth ride.
2. Removed the tire weights. Observed an unbalanced definitive vibration.
3. Put in balancing beads. Observed a return to smooth ride.
Without a report from a trusted source or doing it myself (will never happen) I'll just continue with aligning the tire's dot appropriately and adding a minimal weight when/if needed.
Actually, strike that, even with a report from a trusted source, I'll still do a static balance. I know that works and I don't need to buy beads or clean up beads. Can't see how any minor possible benefit in tire life or improved mileage or smoother ride would be worth the hassle.
Later,
Kent Larson in Minnesota
They work because the heaviest part of tire/wheel assembly is the center of rotation, so the lightest part of the assembly is farthest from the center, which is where the beads migrate.
In other words, the wheel doesn't throw the heaviest part around the center of its rotation, the wheel tends to rotate around its heaviest part (the center of mass).
They don't really start working until the wheel is rotating faster than the beads can fall and roll around the inside of the tire, i.e., until centrifugal force takes effect.
They basically have no effect on a perfectly-balanced wheel. It kinda reminds me of GFCI devices; a person has to get a shock for them to operate and prevent electrocution.
In other words, the wheel doesn't throw the heaviest part around the center of its rotation, the wheel tends to rotate around its heaviest part (the center of mass).
They don't really start working until the wheel is rotating faster than the beads can fall and roll around the inside of the tire, i.e., until centrifugal force takes effect.
They basically have no effect on a perfectly-balanced wheel. It kinda reminds me of GFCI devices; a person has to get a shock for them to operate and prevent electrocution.
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I have ran them in my dually for years just never in a motorcycle. I sold my motorcycle tire balancer years ago when I quit working on bikes. I don't have a good local shop that I trust anymore. So I figured I would give them a try and was just asking if anyone else had used them.
Smoother ride that what an unbalanced tire? More even tire wear is just an opinion, no scientific method applied here.
Thanks, Larry. I'll definitely accept you as a trusted source. However...
Can you point me to a study of some kind? I'm an applied math major with physics concentration and do understand forces. Remember that regardless of the centrifugal (centripetal actually) force, there will still be a significant gravitational force influencing things away from an even distribution. Also, distance from center has a much bigger influence on where the beads would go. If the inside of the tire is completely uniform, there would be a random distribution regardless of weight imbalance. If the inside of the tire has a pocket further away from the center than the rest of the tire, all the beads would migrate to the "bulge".
Can't see how or why beads would be a benefit. I guess if one were convinced they work it is a way to avoid needing to do a balance with weights.
So there, one known advantage:
- no balancing step when putting on new tires
Some possible advantages:
- better, smoother rides than other balance methods
- better milage
- longer tire life
Did more searching and found this guy who does a pretty good analysis and test: Can Beads Really Balance?
He proves they work and describes why. From it I again reach the opinion that I'd rather have a balanced tire instead of waiting for beads to smooth things out. My preference is to have a balanced tire working from the jump instead of an unbalanced system waiting for oscillations to distribute beads to the right place IF I used the right number of beads and IF they get where they should be and IF they are even appropriate for the setup I'm running.
One last thing, the side-to-side shimmy damping he points out as an additional benefit is completely lost with our curved motorcycle tires. The beads will always line up in the mid-tire spot furthest from the center.
So, save a balancing step if that's what you want.
I'll do the balance and have a system not dependent on a wobble to reach proper alignment.
And that's all I have to say about that.
Later,
Kent Larson in Minnesota
The one thing you're omitting is that the vehicle suspension must allow for some motion of the wheel.
wjbertrand
Ventura Highway
The seemingly objective explanations I could find indicate that the unbalanced tire basically does not rotate smoothly, but jumps in the direction of the heavy spot. Since the beads aren’t fixed to the tire, when the tire moves toward the heavy spot it leaves the beads behind, which eventually distributes them away from the heavy spot. So the tire has to be attached to an axle that that can move radially.
Ok, so that might explain why they don’t work on a rigidly mounted dynamic balance machine. The articles talk about the radial movement of the axle being key to bead distribution, but none of them address the larger movement caused by running over bumps. Seems like that would overwhelm the movement attributable to the imbalance, and the beads would never really settle. If you’ve ever used a gas station air hose with a poorly maintained compressor, you’ll get some moisture in the tire. Do wet beads still distribute properly? Too many variables / questions for me.
A real life experience I had was with a car tire that had a small amount of liquid water in it, probably from a wet compressor. That tire intermittently vibrated like crazy, even after several attempts to rebalance the wheel. Finally at a different shop the tech asked me if I’d used balance beads after he tried to balance it a couple times. Finally he broke the bead and discovered the water. He said he knew something must have been moving around in there. After removing the water and rebalancing again, the tire rode smooth as glass. This experience makes me very skeptical of any mobile media as a balancing method.
Ok, so that might explain why they don’t work on a rigidly mounted dynamic balance machine. The articles talk about the radial movement of the axle being key to bead distribution, but none of them address the larger movement caused by running over bumps. Seems like that would overwhelm the movement attributable to the imbalance, and the beads would never really settle. If you’ve ever used a gas station air hose with a poorly maintained compressor, you’ll get some moisture in the tire. Do wet beads still distribute properly? Too many variables / questions for me.
A real life experience I had was with a car tire that had a small amount of liquid water in it, probably from a wet compressor. That tire intermittently vibrated like crazy, even after several attempts to rebalance the wheel. Finally at a different shop the tech asked me if I’d used balance beads after he tried to balance it a couple times. Finally he broke the bead and discovered the water. He said he knew something must have been moving around in there. After removing the water and rebalancing again, the tire rode smooth as glass. This experience makes me very skeptical of any mobile media as a balancing method.
Bmacleod
Site Supporter
I have some experience with balance beads so I will repeat my experiences. I can say IMO that they DO work, most of the time. I have added beads to an otherwise unbalanced tire and notice a complete improvement right away. The issue I had was that, on occasion, a slight vibration would appear, briefly, then disappear. I assume the distribution of the beads got disrupted and then it redistributed and everything was good again. Sometimes this would happen a few times a ride and sometimes I wouldn't notice it for a day or so. It was never annoying and never lasted long. I wouldnt even say "dont run them"... they Do work. Just pointing out an observation. Because I bought equipment to balance wheels statically, I just do it that way and have no vibrations this way either and I avoid other small cons of beads, like the concerns with moisture, plug glue and the mess when swapping tires. Also, beads are pricey as opposed to the cost of a wheel weight or 2.
Thanks for the information. I'm going to give them a try. I got rid of all my balancing equipment years ago and don't have a quality dealership to trust locally. The beads I'm going to run I've ran before in other vehicles with no issues just never had them in a bike before.