Warranty Problems - Rear Drive

I own a 2004 ST1300 with 72,000 miles that is still under warranty. I recently took it into a Honda Dealership to check play in the rear wheel housing. They told me that the rear ring gear needed replacement as the shims were worn out. They also said Honda would not cover this under the warranty as the splines were to be lubricated at each rear tire change. I have done every required maintanence item per the manual since I've owned the bike and I'm the original owner. The rear spline lubrication is not in the owners manual. Most rear tire changes have been performed by non-Honda shops but I believe the splines were cleaned & lubed anyway. Has anyone experienced this problem with their ST and has anyone had a warranty issue with Honda like this?
Any advise is appreciated.

Rear splines require lubrication. Easiest to do at tire changes.

This info is in the Shop Manual not the Owner's manual, since this is not something a typical Owner would do.

Sorry to hear about this problem. I suggest you replace the ring gear, learn from the experience, and move on. I bet you can find a salvage ST rear drive and it won't cost you much.

And be happy you don't own a BMW. The splines on those (engine-transmission) have been giving owners grief for decades.

The maintenance of the rear splines is called out in the service manual.
Your independent tire shop needed to apply 60% (or higher) Moly paste to the splines every time they changed the tire.
Splines that do not get Moly *paste* eat (techie term) themselves up (and it has to be Moly *paste*).

Mark

The lubrication of the rear splines has come up here often. I have read extensive cautions to be sure the dealer that changed the rear tires used the 60% moly paste that honda recomends and to be cautious of the use of ordinary grease. I don't know how this bit of knowledge first came to me but i believe i first saw it in the manual and had it reinforced by this forum. Sorry but from my perspective it is your nickle. I appreciate it might not have been information that you knew. Even a few people here have had Honda dealers use regular grease. They would at least have proof that it was Honda that screwed it up. While you don't have to do your service at a Honda dealer you still have to be able to prove it was done correctly. Maybe you can sue the guy that did the work. I could win that suit since I would only have me to blame. Sorry you did not know this but your dealer has some legitimate right to refuse warranty in my opinion.

It appears you are referring to two different issues, If your ring gear is worn beyond acceptable limits, this has nothing to do with the splines that drive the rear wheel. The splined hub may be a question of proper lube and responsibility, but the ring gear wear should be covered under a warranty. It seems this is a case where your warranty is only as good as your dealer is willing to support your position.

My opinion, ring gear should be covered with or with moly use. If the drive and driven flange are worn out and no moly used it is your $.

these are reasons I only do limited work myself...
so my queston is...If I take my bike to a honda dealer EVERY time the rear wheel (or front...) needs to come off, and I run a problem like this, is there any way they can NOT honor my warranty!!!? (because ALL dealers SUCK IMO)

I'm surprised at the responses I'm getting here. I have done everything called for in the owners manual. There is no way that I would have skipped this item had it simply been in the owners manual as it obviously an important item. To answer one comment above, it is not the ring gears but the spline portion of that part.
Thanks for your comments. -JEP-

Cleaning and lubing the splines is not in the Owner's manual. It's in the Service manual. Sorry, but I would have to say it's valid for them to not cover the wear under warranty if you didn't use Moly 60 on the splines or the independent shop that changed tires didn't. I would hold the Honda dealer responsible if you always had them change your tires.

Ray

You might have an argument if it weren't in the owner's manual. If Honda is going to base warranty decisions on this point of maintenance and then not tell you about it, that would not be fair. According to that last post though, it is indeed in the manual and I guess they can be a dick about it. Probably not very good for customer relations though. I think I might see if they might fix it as a good will gesture.

This is not in the 03 manual.

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You are correct but it is in the 2004 manual (I've got both of them).

I did find the reference to spline lubrication on page 159 in my manual. Thank you for that reference.
It never occurred to me, however, to look under the section "If you have a flat tire" for typical maintenance. I don't know about the rest of you but I get 8-10K out of a rear tire. This makes lubrication of the splines one of the highest maintenance items on the bike! You would think Honda would make this more apparent to owners. -JEP-
BTW - I have owned 4 Honda shaft drives, all with high mileage and never heard or had this problem.

RIDEMYST said:

I did find the reference to spline lubrication on page 159 in my manual. Thank you for that reference.
It never occurred to me, however, to look under the section "If you have a flat tire" for typical maintenance. I don't know about the rest of you but I get 8-10K out of a rear tire. This makes lubrication of the splines one of the highest maintenance items on the bike! You would think Honda would make this more apparent to owners. -JEP-
BTW - I have owned 4 Honda shaft drives, all with high mileage and never heard or had this problem.

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I've never owned a GW, but am fairly certain they have the exact same requirement for spline lube. I worked with a guy who bought a used 1500 GW and ended up with totally failed splines. Lucky for him it was under extended warranty. Since the warranty covered his I can't imagine how Honda can't cover yours. Obviously with a used bike he nor the shop could prove if the splines had been lubed or not.

Phil

I have a couple of other questions snd it looks like the majority here agree that the splines have to be lubed with moly paste. Most of us think you should have known this even though it is not in the manual until 2004 which is a help to your cause. BUT, I have another question that has not been mentioned. What about the shims? how does lubing the pinion and ring, or not, cause the shims to wear out? I thought the shims had to do with backlash and gear alignment? If this was shimed corectly what wears out? I think the pinion and gear would be the only victims but the shims would be unaffected. I am just wondering if there is another related cause? What if the tire shops did lube the gear nd we are all stuck on the moly clue? Am I on track with this question?

RIDEMYST said:

Most rear tire changes have been performed by non-Honda shops but I believe the splines were cleaned & lubed anyway. .

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Note my original statement!

RIDEMYST,

How many sets of drive flange bearings have you had to replace? Were any of the sets catastrophically damaged? My thinking is that the movement allowed by damaged flange bearings will "eat up" drive spines.

I asked at my local Honda dealer if they could sell me the molypaste for the rear drive the last time I was getting a rear wheel change. They didn't have any in stock and also said they never used it. I asked the Workshop foreman mechanic if he ever used it and he replied he never had cause to use it. I said it was recommended at every wheel change,again he said he had never seen a Pan require it,and this is a workshop that services the local police bikes which are ST1100's. I dont doubt the mechanics words as he has a pretty good knowlede of the Honda shaft drives (20 years as a Honda and Kawasaki mechanic)

B11RGER said:

I said it was recommended at every wheel change,again he said he had never seen a Pan require it,and this is a workshop that services the local police bikes which are ST1100's.

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I won't speak for your side of the pond, but over here just because someone landed the service contract doesn't necessarily mean they're the best ones to do the job.

--Mark

This might have been covered in the past. I just performed my first tire change after 8,000 miles. To me, lubrication is always required when you have a condition in which to two metal masses are mated, and are in motion.

I read the article in the attached link concerning lubrication:

www.motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Shaft.html#Grease

I used the Krytox lubricant (expensive: $37 for 2 oz.). It was amazing. Prior to this tire change, you could not touch the differential gear box at the wheel hub (after riding for a few hours) without burning your finger. After the application of the Krytox lubricant, it's still hot, but you can put your whole hand on it without it burning you - amazing! It is advertized to reduce the component temperature by 150 F.


This has got to be beneficial for the metal component, by reducing wear.

Just my 2 cents.

Dale

RIDEMYST,

You stated, "They told me that the rear ring gear needed replacement as the shims were worn out. They also said Honda would not cover this under the warranty as the splines were to be lubricated at each rear tire change."

Here is what I can not figure out. I'm looking at the pictures in my service manual. The shim in question seems to be sandwiched between the ring gear and the ring gear bearing which are held in place by the case cover. These parts are never touched during routine maintenance and seem to have no connection to the splines in the ring gear.

Are they saying that the ring gear needs to be replaced because of not properly lubing the splines? If so then I can see the possibility of Honda not covering the repair under warrantee. However, if there is no damage to the ring gear I see no reason why Honda should not cover the damaged shim. Besides, the only way I could see the shim being damaged is through the failure of the ring gear case bearing and/or ring gear bearing.

This may be the stumbling block as I understand it how things work. Dealer gets money from bike sale. Warrantee parts are supplied via Honda but labor comes out of dealer pocket. If the dealer doesn't want to eat this cost works wispered into Honda's ear lead them into believing that this is not covered under warrantee. You pay for parts and labor, dealer makes money.

Without a clearer picture of what the exact damage is, shim, splines, bearings etc. it is hard to get outside help.