And another:
Dynabeads, or similar products: Yes or no?
- Thread starter r2c9y
- Start date
No weights.
But wait:
There's more:
Now for a bit more serious answer.
I have balance beads at home in a plastic cup. If I need to balance my tires, I'll use them without question. But the last 4 sets of tires on my F800GT, didn't need balancing. I merely lined up the dot on the sidewall with the valve stem...and all was good.
Interestingly enough, the rims had weight on them from the dealership...but after taking that off, I never had to balance the tires.
Chris
Bmacleod
Site Supporter
I have mixed results with beads. I have run them in bike tires, car tires and big truck tires. In my research before starting down the path, the manufacturers of the beads (I have used 3 different manufacturers) all stated that the higher the section width, or profile, the better the result. They had little effect or inconsistency with low profile tires, they stated. I have run them in bikes and removed them now. When I first put them in, I was impressed. Then I started noticing vibrations come and go, albeit slight. I went back to static balancing with stick on weights and it is consistently smooth now. I ran the beads in a car once and I had exactly the same results, slight vibrations would come and go. Those car tires were 60 series profile. I drove a concrete mixer with dual steer axles before and it was smooth til one day, I cut a tire on a jobsite and had 1 tire replaced with a new one and a vibration appeared, consistently. I had the mechanic at work order in some beads from a big truck supplier and put them in the tire. They put in the recommended amount and it did help but didnt solve the issue completely. We never looked further into it after that. The bead manufacturers claim that while they have seen many accounts of beads, as a sole means of balancing, do the job, they caution that beads are meant to fine tune a static balance job, or at least they did 15 years ago when I researched beads. Overall, I'm not that impressed with them... YMMV
Every new tire I buy gets balanced before being installed. They remain balanced throughout their life.
Given that experience, I won't be using balancing beads regardless whether they work or not.
If I had issues with tires going out of balance mid-life, I might reconsider using beads or I might just have the tires re-balanced since that's been working pretty well for me.
Given that experience, I won't be using balancing beads regardless whether they work or not.
If I had issues with tires going out of balance mid-life, I might reconsider using beads or I might just have the tires re-balanced since that's been working pretty well for me.
How about we settle this once and for all? Those that think balance beads work, stand on the right side. Those that don't think they work, stand on the other side. Obviously those that think balance beads work are right, because...well, they are on the right. It's obvious. The right of what? I don't know. And everyone else is not on the right.
Now, does that settle the discussion?
Sorry (sort of). I just couldn't resist that. We could go on and on about this, but we won't change anyone's mind...either way.
Now, does that settle the discussion?
Sorry (sort of). I just couldn't resist that. We could go on and on about this, but we won't change anyone's mind...either way.
I'd say they work as long as there are enough and they remain free to move around.
If you think about it, a tire must first be out of balance for the beads to balance it.
If you think about it, a tire must first be out of balance for the beads to balance it.
I question not only your statement, but also your logic on this.
Having tested several sets of the same tires, on the same bike, and having access to a state of the art wheel balancing machine, I spent a lot of time testing Ride-On, Balancing Beads, and wheel weight balancing methods.
In a nut shell (cartoon version) here is what we found.
Wheel weights may balance your tires the moment you put them on, but as the tires wear, the balance changes, yet the weights do not.
Often causing cupping and strange wear on the tires.
Several times the tires were pulled and the balance checked on the machine at various mileage.
None of them remained in balance after 800 or so miles etc.
Balance beads, flatten out, causing more vibrations than they fix, and every time we pulled the wheel, and spun them to check the balance, it was very difficult to obtain a balance again.
Ride on was the only product that was different,
It remains in the tire, re-balanced itself every time you rode it, and didn’t have the vibration from the shape or form of the inside of the tire causing issues.
After 6 sets of Pirelli angel GT tires, each tire balanced with ride on lasted longer, and didn’t get the cupping or strange wear that occurred with the other two methods.
Everyone’s bike and riding style are different, but these are the results that we found on these six sets of tires, on the same bike.
The interesting thing about the ride on is every time we pulled a wheel to check the balance, it was always still balanced.
You may think your tires remained balanced and working correctly, but I question if you even bothered to verify it.
I have not used weights, beads, or anything else but Ride On for the last 30 or so years.
Ymmv.
There was never any logic intended. It was just my lousy "Dad" sense of humor showing itself. You know, the kind of humor everyone just groans about after you try to tell a joke? Chris
I am amazed at some of the comments on this thread... and even more amazed at the 2CV guys attempts to prove something in entirely the wrong way!
When you balance an assembly, that is a wheel and tyre together, on a machine it is balanced at that moment in time, on that machine......
As the tyre wears, the balance changes due to wear on the tyre caused by dynamic forces on the vehicle and on the road.
As the tyre wear increases, uneven wear occurs, this is inevitable due to the immutable laws of physics!
Testing beads, Dynabeads are what I use, with a wheel on a balance machine does NOT work, the assembly is being held at the axle and no vertical or lateral movement is permitted due to the fixed axle.
Dynabeads, micro ceramic in construction, when fitted to an assembly, and I refer to motorcycles only here as that is what I use them on, are allowed to redistribute within the tyre as the motion of the assembly increases dynamically, yes the assembly is on an axle, BUT the axle is now able to move vertically, which assists the beads in finding and distributing themselves at the point, or area, opposing the heavier moment around the internal circumference of the assembly.
When I worked out on the road as a sales rep for Michelin I came across out of balance assemblies almost every week where they had been balanced on a machine but were awful on the vehicle.... on one occasion we found the brake drum on the vehicle to be OVAL, causing tremendous out of balance on the move, especially under braking!
The tyre fitter was adamant that there was nothing wrong with the assembly and he was technically correct, but if he had taken just a moment to simply look at the vehicle the culprit was obvious...
I have shown on my own motorcycles time and time again that I get improved mileage, more even wear and super smooth balance, all without any stick on weights on the wheels.
Simply adding two ounces, yes 2 OZ's, remember those OZ's which our 2CV man didn't understand, to each assembly during fitting, ensures a smooth ride every time throughout the life of the tyre, or tire in the USA.....
Follks can say what they like and call them snake oil or whatever, but many years of experience on ST1100, NT700, NC750X, BMW1250RT and my current ride NT1100D, all prove that for me Dynabeads just work, every time.
In the event of a puncture, using wiggly worms liberally coated in rubber cement prior to insertion into the hole, with the hole kept away from the lowest point for at least ten minutes prior to inflation, allows the cement to dry out and does not affect the balance of the assembly. You still get some beads stuck to the repair, but not enough to detract from the overall effectiveness of the product.
So, as an ex Naval aircraft engineer, ex vibration systems engineer and as an ex Michelin tyre employee, and their training course is extensive.... and as a long time user of balance beads, believe me, they work.
I do not and will not use liquid repair or balance products in my tyres, they may work in the short term, but they are not the best solution and having seen x-rays of tyres where liquid sealant or water has gotten into the puncture prior to, or during the liquid repair product sealing a puncture, I can tell you that the damage caused to metal cord structure internally is catastrophic in the short to long term, hence my policy on liquid products going into MY tyres.
Some modern motorcycle tyres no longer use metal cord or belt in their manufacture, but my policy remains the same.
I hope this has been helpful to some folks, but there will always be those that call balance beads snake oil, and they are entitled to that opinion, but my experience says otherwise.
As an aside, I actually buy Dynabeads classic car type, which are identical to the motorcycle product but cheaper in the UK. I only need to buy them once in a blue moon, probably every three or four sets of tyres, as you can use a cleaned out vacuum cleaner to suck them out once one the tyre is unseated before removing it from the rim completely.
You can then drop them into the tyre before seating the second bead and then inflating.... of course they can be inserted through the valve stem as they are micro beads, but you need the patience of a saint to do this, and I prefer the first method!
If you don't fit your own tyres, just ask your friendly tyre fitter to do it for you, not so easy to get them to remove them for reuse though....
That said, a set of beads. or 4ozs, costs about the same as a balance on a machine, but I take a small handheld vacuum cleaner to the shop these days and the fitter uses that to suck those little beggars right out!
HTH
YEMV
When you balance an assembly, that is a wheel and tyre together, on a machine it is balanced at that moment in time, on that machine......
As the tyre wears, the balance changes due to wear on the tyre caused by dynamic forces on the vehicle and on the road.
As the tyre wear increases, uneven wear occurs, this is inevitable due to the immutable laws of physics!
Testing beads, Dynabeads are what I use, with a wheel on a balance machine does NOT work, the assembly is being held at the axle and no vertical or lateral movement is permitted due to the fixed axle.
Dynabeads, micro ceramic in construction, when fitted to an assembly, and I refer to motorcycles only here as that is what I use them on, are allowed to redistribute within the tyre as the motion of the assembly increases dynamically, yes the assembly is on an axle, BUT the axle is now able to move vertically, which assists the beads in finding and distributing themselves at the point, or area, opposing the heavier moment around the internal circumference of the assembly.
When I worked out on the road as a sales rep for Michelin I came across out of balance assemblies almost every week where they had been balanced on a machine but were awful on the vehicle.... on one occasion we found the brake drum on the vehicle to be OVAL, causing tremendous out of balance on the move, especially under braking!
The tyre fitter was adamant that there was nothing wrong with the assembly and he was technically correct, but if he had taken just a moment to simply look at the vehicle the culprit was obvious...
I have shown on my own motorcycles time and time again that I get improved mileage, more even wear and super smooth balance, all without any stick on weights on the wheels.
Simply adding two ounces, yes 2 OZ's, remember those OZ's which our 2CV man didn't understand, to each assembly during fitting, ensures a smooth ride every time throughout the life of the tyre, or tire in the USA.....
Follks can say what they like and call them snake oil or whatever, but many years of experience on ST1100, NT700, NC750X, BMW1250RT and my current ride NT1100D, all prove that for me Dynabeads just work, every time.
In the event of a puncture, using wiggly worms liberally coated in rubber cement prior to insertion into the hole, with the hole kept away from the lowest point for at least ten minutes prior to inflation, allows the cement to dry out and does not affect the balance of the assembly. You still get some beads stuck to the repair, but not enough to detract from the overall effectiveness of the product.
So, as an ex Naval aircraft engineer, ex vibration systems engineer and as an ex Michelin tyre employee, and their training course is extensive.... and as a long time user of balance beads, believe me, they work.
I do not and will not use liquid repair or balance products in my tyres, they may work in the short term, but they are not the best solution and having seen x-rays of tyres where liquid sealant or water has gotten into the puncture prior to, or during the liquid repair product sealing a puncture, I can tell you that the damage caused to metal cord structure internally is catastrophic in the short to long term, hence my policy on liquid products going into MY tyres.
Some modern motorcycle tyres no longer use metal cord or belt in their manufacture, but my policy remains the same.
I hope this has been helpful to some folks, but there will always be those that call balance beads snake oil, and they are entitled to that opinion, but my experience says otherwise.
As an aside, I actually buy Dynabeads classic car type, which are identical to the motorcycle product but cheaper in the UK. I only need to buy them once in a blue moon, probably every three or four sets of tyres, as you can use a cleaned out vacuum cleaner to suck them out once one the tyre is unseated before removing it from the rim completely.
You can then drop them into the tyre before seating the second bead and then inflating.... of course they can be inserted through the valve stem as they are micro beads, but you need the patience of a saint to do this, and I prefer the first method!
If you don't fit your own tyres, just ask your friendly tyre fitter to do it for you, not so easy to get them to remove them for reuse though....
That said, a set of beads. or 4ozs, costs about the same as a balance on a machine, but I take a small handheld vacuum cleaner to the shop these days and the fitter uses that to suck those little beggars right out!
HTH
YEMV
You're right. I THINK my tires are balanced because I never experience them out of balance. That should be sufficient verification.
I suppose they could be marginally out of balance after some wear, but if I can't tell, then why obsess.
(and you can add your views without starting with a deprecating tone)
Kevcules
Site Supporter
Excellent post.
I know the beads work also, as myself and a few friends have used them in the past. Since I don't ride much anymore and have trouble working on my bikes these days, I recently had a tire installed and balanced at a motorcycle shop. My bad.
The tire balanced with "no weights" which I had never seen before.I replaced this last tire because I had a small staple sized piece of metal in the tire. Since I was already using dyna beads, I was worried that the worm and cement would attract the beads and maybe compromise the balancing effect of the beads. The tire had about 25% life left so I decided to replace it. With your advice though, sounds like I would have been ok.
I considered using ride-on long ago to see how effective it would have been. I live in a colder climate so I was worried that temperature would conflict with a liquid balancing substance. Then after a very cold storage, would I have a ball of ice in the tire?
Either way , sharing these ideas is great information and keep using what works for you!
Bmacleod
Site Supporter
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They do? I thought they are ceramic and hard, not soft.
Bmacleod
Site Supporter
I have to correct myself. Upon reading the recent FAQ's on dynabeads website, they now say that static weights should be removed from bike wheels, while static weights can remain on car and larger vehicle wheels and beads added as a fine tune addition. They could have changed this recommendation, or I could have remembered wrong... either way.
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Bmacleod
Site Supporter
They are hard. After running the beads for the life of a tire, they come out as they went in, but with some "flakes" of rubber mixed in from friction. They actually abrade the tire a bit, nowhere near enough to be an issue. Looks like salt and pepper.They do? I thought they are ceramic and hard, not soft.
What a fascinating thread. I'd never heard of balancing beads or a liquid balancing product before. I also had no idea that a tire could get out of balance once balanced.
I have spent countless hours meticulously balancing my wheels/tires with a Marc Parnes balancer and lead weights. I've only had a zero balance tire once, but most of the tires I've mounted require minimal weight. I've not had any unusual tire wear or vibration that I can think of, but the best you know is the best you have.
The Dyna Beads sound like something I need to try.
I have spent countless hours meticulously balancing my wheels/tires with a Marc Parnes balancer and lead weights. I've only had a zero balance tire once, but most of the tires I've mounted require minimal weight. I've not had any unusual tire wear or vibration that I can think of, but the best you know is the best you have.
The Dyna Beads sound like something I need to try.
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